Vaccinations

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There has been an explosion of vaccination in the veterinary community.  There are several concerns that this raises.

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Are Vaccines Effective?

Core dog vaccines typically include parvovirus, distemper, adenovirus, and parainfluenza in a combination 4 in 1.  Often times one or many strains of leptospirosis are also in the core vaccine.

  • Parainfluenza:  It is designed to protect one of MANY respiratory pathogens that contribute to kennel cough. If this vaccination were protective, then why does your vet or boarding facility require a different vaccine to prevent kennel cough?  The vaccine is ineffective at preventing disease.  Disease, if acquired, is typically mild.
  • Distemper, Adenovirus and parvovirus: These are devastating diseases and vaccination does provide excellent immunity.  Puppies should be boostered at 8, 12, and 16 weeks.  This is the time when our patients are most susceptible to disease.  Their protection from maternal antibodies is waning and their own immune systems are not  developed.  They should be re-boostered at around one year from the final puppy shot to reinforce the animals’ adult immunity .  This protocol provides long term immunity.  Adult animals that have received this vaccine protocol are protected, in our opinion, for the life of the animal (there is research to support this claim).  Subsequent exposures to these viruses usually result in clinically mild disease or no disease at all.  One could consider re-boostering mid -life at around 5 years of age if they are uncomfortable never vaccinating again.  In our opinion, the dangers of contracting disease outweigh the risks of vaccinating more frequently than this.  See below “dangers of vaccine”.
  • Leptospirosis: There are hundres of serovars of leptospirosis, and vaccination for one serovar does not necessarily protect against the others.  It is also transmissible to people from their pets if infected  thru infected urine. Leptospira organisms prefer warm, moist, alkaline environments. They are more likely to be found in stagnant or slow moving water. Lepotospirosis is a bacteria (not a virus) and bacterial vaccinations do not provide long term immunity.  You must booster yearly.  Some have suggested that the protective immunity against leptospirosis is even less than one year.  Anecdotally, the leptospirosis vaccine is known to cause the most frequent and violent reactions. With these facts in mind, except  in environments where leptospirosis is a severe threat,  the benefits, in the opinion of Angryvet, do not outweigh the risks.  Limit your pet’s contact with rodent populations and limit your pet’s exposure to stagnant water or flooded soil  to minimize chance of infection.  If there are known outbreaks in your area, you may re-consider.   We don’t use this vaccination on our own pets and rarely recommend it to our patients.
  • Lyme: Only consider in heavily endemic areas.  Focus on tick prevention and removal (ticks must attach for 12-24 hours before infection occurs).  Check your dog twice a day for ticks during tick seaseon.  Lyme is a bacterin like lepto, so immunity is fleeting (less then a year). There have been reports of Lyme Nephritis, or renal failure induced from the vaccination.  These reports have subsequently been largely discounted.   We rarely vaccinate for Lyme in our practices unless the client demands it due to their circumstances.
  • Giardia: Don’t use… doesn’t work
  • Ringworm: Don’t use… doesn’t work
  • Bordatella: Provides short term immunity and since so many organisms contribute to kennel cough its efficacy is hard to quantify.  Disease, if contracted, is  typically mild.  Can use sparingly if required by a boarding kennel.
  • Rabies: A nearly 100% fatal disease if contracted.  Vaccine is effective.  To contract disease, your pet must be bitten by a rabid animal.  The disease if contracted is transmissable to people .  State laws require us to booster every 3 years even though immunity is certainly far longer than this.  Unfortunately, in most instances pet owners are required to follow state law.
  • Coronavirus: Not needed, not recommended

Feline Vaccination

the typical 3/1 vaccine given to cats contains:

  • Panleukopenia: Very effective vaccine… deadly disease if caught and highly contagious. Cats should be boostered at 8, 12 and 16 weeks then boostered at a year and never again (especially an indoor cat).
  • Calicivirus and Viral Rhinotracheitis: These are typically in the panleukopenia vaccine; so, if you want to give panleukopenia,  often you have to give these.  These are upper respiratory diseases.  The vaccines DO NOT prevent infection and/or disease.  At best they decrease the severity and course of the disease and reduce shedding in the environment.  Again, two to three kitten boosters and one booster at a year after the last kitten booster.  Merck does offer a panleukopenia vaccine that does not contain calicivirus and rhinotracheitis.
  • FIP: Don’t give. Ineffective (our opinion based upon published data)
  • Giardia: Don’t give Ineffective (our opinion based upon published data)
  • Felv: Deadly disease and effective vaccine… but your cat needs to come in contact with felv + cat. Use only non-adjuvented vaccine. Vaccinate at 12 and 16 weeks and then at a year for OUTDOOR cats only or cats within a household that has a positive cat
  • Chlamydia: don’t give… does nothing potentially dangerous (based upon published data)
  • FIV:  Don’t give.  Ineffective or partially effective against only one strain of the disease. (based upon published data)

Vaccinations… THE DANGERS THAT NO ONE WANTS YOU TO KNOW

First let me say that we do believe in certain vaccinations in certain scenarios as stated above.  Vaccinations can be a powerful tool in disease prevention.  They are not however without significant risk.

  1.  Vaccine Sarcomas: This is mostly a problem of our feline patients (although there have been reports in at least one dog).  It is a well known phenomenon that is rare but does occur.  Cats that have received (we believe) either ADJUVENTED feline leukemia and rabies are at risk.  The sarcomas or cancer that develops at the vaccination sites of these animals are highly aggressive and require aggressive  surgery, radiation therapy and chemotherapy.   Often times we can’t cure these cats.  If you are considering vaccinating your cat,  limit to two or three kitten boosters and one year from the last kitten booster as recommended above.
  2. Immune mediated disease.  Vaccination by definition stimulates an intense immune response.  Often times this can result in the body’s immune response turning against itself.  The rise of immune-mediated conditions such as thrombocytopenia (body destroying its own platelets), hemolytic anemia (body destroying its own red blood cells), polyarthritis, glomerulonephritis etc. have all been linked at times to vaccination.
  3.  Allergies, licking paws, chronic puritis, and inflammatory bowel disease…all have a POTENTIAL link to vaccination.  This has largely been disproven but more research needs to be done.
  4.  Acute allergic reaction, fever, pain and swelling at injection site, hives, and DEATH are all potential consequences of vaccination.
  5.  There are MANY diseases in people that are either known to be caused by or are speculated to cause a variety of diseases.

Bottom line:

Vaccination has a place in veterinary medicine.  Vaccinate minimally… general rule:  three vaccines as pup/kitten betwen 8 and 20 weeks and then  one booster at one year from that.  Many advocate not vaccinating for more than one disease at a time.  Don’t vaccinate for diseases where the disease itself is not that serious (coronavirus etc)…don’t vaccinate for diseases (lepto and lyme for example) unless there is a large endemic risk in your area and you have done your homework that the benefits outweigh the risks.

Focus on targeted vaccination ,good nutrition,  good husbandry ( a clean environment for your pets) and minimal exposure to various disease carrying ectoparasites and rodents.

Understand that some veterinarians (who make their money by bringing patients in for “yearly vaccination”) and drug companies who sell the vaccines don’t readily disclose any of these facts and will often present only one side of an argument.

 

Questions

Comments

  1. Teresa stone says:

    Hello,
    A few days after receiving her next rabies vaccine, our hand raised, loving and gentle 5 year old German Shephard viciously mauled our 4 year old child. She would have continued had I not pulled her off of my child’s head….

    What are your thoughts on this? What roll, if any, could the rabies vaccine have played in this?

    Thank you,
    Teresa

    • Angry Vet says:

      No role. Get rid of the dog. Period

      • joan vecsey says:

        I think “rehome” the dog would be a more appropriate response.

        • Dotcom says:

          If “mauled” however means the dog simply snapped at the kid while the child was unsupervised (a mistake many parents make), then yes: rehome. But if it really went down the way the OP described (a vicious and out of the blue attack with a supervised child), the dog should be put down. You cannot adopt out a dog that attacks people out of the blue (children or adults) as there’s no way to guarantee that dog won’t at some time injure someone like that again.

          I speak as a parent of 3 canine furbabies who adjusted fine after my human one was born (plus we adopted 2 more dogs afterwards). Also as someone who knew of a family friend with a dobie who one day snapped and hated children (to the point she’d kill them if she could). That dog’s owner didn’t have kids, but his dog still managed to get lose (it can happen to anyone) and the hunt for her was terrifying. She ended up being put down.

        • fitz says:

          what so he can get another child? when an animal attacks a human, safety comes first for all people. don’t adopt out. i had a friend whos dog attacked the neighbor she kept dog till the dog put her son in the hospital and scared him for life emotional and physical

        • Ivyleague says:

          I see what your priorities are, but in the real world children ( people) come before dogs. Put the dog down humanely.

          • Tammy Duggan says:

            Putting the dog down is the worst advise. Is there something wrong with the dog? Is he hurt? Did the child do something to him. It doesn’t excuse that he attacked the child, but there are other things to consider. Consider rehoming to a person with experience with dogs. A medical examination could point out the motive. The dog has no history of aggressiveness. Something happened to make him do this.

      • Ivan Stewart says:

        What an irresponsible reply. There could be a dozen reasons why that incident occurred, and that’s just taking that story at face value with no understanding of the context or the dog.

        Shake your head

        • Dotcom says:

          It depends. Overall, I actually disagree.

          If the OP was being honest and not just melodramatic or trying to cover their own irresponsibility (ex – letting your kid get in the crate with your dog while its eating), then I think it was a very honest reply. And really? If the OP *was* being melodramatic or dog-ignorant, they probably should rehome the dog before their child gets hurt again.

        • angry says:

          I agree with this comment. Vets are so judgemental of dogs and their owners. They advertise that they want to give the best healthcare for your pets and really all they give a toss about is money over your pets health.

        • Gail Cox says:

          The dog should be destroyed, period. I agree with the vet, get rid of the dog. Your child should ALWAYS come first. A dog attacking like the way you described is deadly.

          • JB says:

            I would NEVER put an animal to sleep…..period…rehome the dog ….yes…BUT u never know what child did to dog…..or what could have happened….confine animal away from child, yes … Rehome, yes…animals have feelings too and this is damn sure a cruel world with cruel people….get a brain and don’t jump to any conclusion without taking the time to find out. Human brains are apparently immune to kindness and common sense.

          • Donna says:

            Dog’s are animals, they are not human. If a dog will attack and hurt any in that fashion to the extent that he needed to be pulled off the child, he needs to be put to sleep. You rehome that dog and he attacks another child, even if you rehome to a family with no children everyone gets visitors. A rescue can not even accept a dog that has a bite history because there is liability. They knowing adopt out a dog that has bitten someone, they are responsible. That dog will bite again.

          • Tammy Duggan says:

            If Michael Vick’s dogs could be re-homed and flourish with new family’s, then any dog is a candidate for re-homing. The problem might not be the dog.

        • jamey says:

          If a dog Mauls…remember it said mauled..not bitten..the dog should go to a long sleep..and i do mean LONG

          • judie says:

            I had a wonderful loving pitt/rott mix who hated my poodle mix. She attacked the smaller dog once and i pulled them apart. She accidentally got the opportunity two years later, and almost killed the other dog. Dog or child, if they attack once, they will attack again.

        • Ivyleague says:

          Another person who thinks dogs have equal rights to people. Do you think he should have a trial with a judge and jury?

      • Karen Gilden says:

        I have to back up the vet here. You were in a situation that involved a child. Having been in this same situation in the past with my own son, I can tell you that your beloved pet and your child should not be living under the same roof together. The reason for the dog attacking a small child is less significant than the fact that this dog has found it in him/herself to do such a thing. You are risking your child’s life by keeping this dog. Your words are “viciously mauled “. Irregardless, you must first protect your child. If you still have this dog and are thinking about placing it in another home, please show caution. People become complacent when a dog appears to be safe even if it has a history. I know this is a hard thing to do. As I said, I have been in a similar position. My decision was to put the dog down as I held it and then to never forgive myself for both failing to protect my son and to protect the dog from being put in that situation. I can look at my now 19 year old son, a college student, and, as I see the scars he still carries, know that I made the right decsion, no matter how painful it was.

        • Chloe says:

          Dear Karen,
          Thank you for your thoughtful writing. I have been bit 3 times in the face by German Shepherds. I was friends with all of these dogs (they were not strangers).
          The first was when I was three, by a dog that no one but the owner and me, a toddler at the time could approach. It was a guard dog that should have never been in a family home. The dog wanted my Oreo cookie and bit me while jumping on me to get it. He launched on me suddenly.
          The second time was when I was 7. This was a family dog who was well loved. I was in England and an old lady ran her wheeled shopping basket over the shepherd’s foot. He was startled and I still remember seeing his mouth open wide, his jaws chomping down on my entire little face. Very scary and painful.
          The last time was when I was 27, and I was with a dog, a placid well cared for German shepherd. I was petting her, and she was enjoying me and suddenly something got into her, and she went for my eye. Absolutely no warning, no quick moves on my part, nothing threatening like staring into her eyes. It shocked her owners as this dog, never had a history of doing something like this. I have been around literally thousands of dogs; have taken care of more than one hundred, and have never been bit, except by these three German Shepherds. And in the face too. So for me, I stay away from them. And if I had children, that is a breed I could not allow near my kids after what happened to me. It’s too bad, because otherwise, they are a wonderful breed. I just wanted to say that I have so much sympathy for what you and your son went through. It is very hard to forgive yourself when you have had to make the choices in the situation you were in. My support and concern go out to you and your son.

          • Steve says:

            It’s not the breed … it’s the owner and the breeder that are potentially at fault. Same goes for pitts, rots, and any dog of the like. They are the most gentle breed if bred and trained right. Lastly, unless it’s your dog that you trust 100%, no one should EVER put their face near a dogs face. That’s a huge human error.

          • Amy says:

            That’s like saying you were attacked by a Hispanic person three times and now you won’t let minorities near you or your kids

      • Jennifer says:

        Hi, I just had a question, my dog I think has had his vaccinations at least thats what the lady said that I got him from at 6mo old, he’s 4 now but I’m wondering if I need to revaccinate him because he’s had kennel cough we got it treated but it hasn’t gone away completely so we have to treat him again but I wanna prevent it from happening again so I wanna vaccinate him for the kennel cough but I wanna get others done while I’m at it

        • Angry Vet says:

          the best vaccination to prevent a disease is getting the disease itself! there are a lot of strains and different organisms however that contribute to kennel cough complex. Vaccination is somewhat helpful but by no means a guarantee

          • Tina Michell says:

            I think that reply just answered my question, but I want to be sure.
            Last year, after my puppies had received their vaccines for distemper, they were exposed to the disease. Both tested positive for distemper.
            Do I still need to vaccinate for distemper this year?

        • Wendy says:

          I have had 3 bouts of Kennel Cough – one about 12 yrs ago, one last year and another this year in January. It is an airbourne virus. Just the same as we get colds so the dog has its own. The first time I used conventional treatment from my vets and it took over 3 months for my dogs to be free of it. The next time I used homeopathy and it last only 1 month. This time I did the same (homeopathy) and within a week my dogs were clear. I must state that I have quite a few dogs, so like colds, it hits them at different times during the time virus is around.

        • Anna Dean says:

          Not needed, he now has immunity. Plus vaccinated dogs can still get the kennel cough! Instead strenghten his immune system with a biologically appropriate diet. That means his natural diet. Meat, meaty bones, eggs, fruit, vegetables and oats. Never wheat, which is abundant in commercial foods.
          And don’t forget, we already compromising its immune system by neutering them! God gave them the hormons for a reason, he did not make a mistake! I never neuter my dogs and keep away from commercially prepared food! Feed human grade quality – from a butcher not from a pet shop.

          • Jen says:

            That would make sense if people didn’t get sick either. Neutering has nothing to do if your dog gets a disease. If that was true almost no humans would ever get sick.

      • Ron Guinta says:

        This is an unfortunate case but one which occurs too frequently. Dogs are obtained as pseudo-children and raised in like fashion with no understanding or appreciation for the intrinsic value of a canine companion. The person feels an attachment for the dog, but after all they are just a dog. The dog does not experience a true two way bond despite their attempt to do so. In the course of development the dog will experience anxiety (low level fear) and frustration (low level anger) on a regular basis. They are typically over fed, under stimulated and bored. Genetic predisposition with regards to adaptation to these stressors ultimately dictates their fate. The human owner is always so surprised, after all the dog is so sweet…that is when I have the time to pay attention to them. Dogs suffer this kind of existence all over the world, most adapt to whatever life they are given. An attribute to the amazing resilience and adaptability of this species. Some are pushed beyond threshold and react and pay the price. In this particular case the dog should be evaluated for re homing. But that would take a lot of time, effort and expense, and after all it’s just a dog. Humans fail dog (and child) once again.

      • Amy Lambert says:

        I feel terrible for your patients and clients. Wow! You should not be allowed to practice veterinary medicine.
        Who trained you? Try taking the position that you are WRONG and try to prove that you know what you are talking about. I am shocked by your response.
        http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/rabies-vaccination-and-aggression-in-dogs/
        th4dogs.org There is SO much information out there – catch up!

        • Laurie Matson says:

          I agree. Dogs Naturally has been publishing about Rabies Misaim a lot lately. It does happen and I’m sure a lot of dogs are put down because of this reaction to a Rabies Vaccination. Angry Vet, are you not aware of this?

        • joanna says:

          Im so glad you posted this, when I read the reaction… no it couldnt have been associated with the vaccine, I was furious. http://www.vitalanimal.com is a great blog, truly holistic.

        • Ron says:

          I agree 100% with Amy Lambert and Laurie Matson. I know for a fact that Rabies Miasm exists and it appeared in my dog both times that she received her Rabies Vaccine. 2 consecutive years in a row. Luckily she came to her senses both times before an actual bite occurred, but I find it suspicious that both times it was within a couple of days of receiving her rabies shot. The 2nd time, I was already sure she would exhibit the symptoms of Rabies Miasm, so I kept her confined in the den and away from people until I felt safe she was past the period in which it happened the previous year. And, yes, she did experience Rabies like symptoms the 2nd time as well. I realize that many of the Vets are reputable and governed by state law regarding rabies, but honestly, in my experience, MOST vets seem to be greedy and driven by money. Yes, they do need to stay up to date on the latest research, but sadly most of them do not.

          My dog eventually completely recovered from the symptoms of Rabies Miasm and is once again a loving, affectionate dog. Thankfully her last rabies vaccination was the 3 year rabies, so I don’t have to go through this again every single year.

      • Chantel says:

        This is my first time on this site and I know that comment is old but you’re a veterinarian? Because I’m a tech who has worked with many doctors and that was the most unprofessional response I have heard…

      • cece says:

        Actually violence and agression is a listed side effect. Seems like a off the hip response. For a vet youd think youd take a moment to read the full warning insert. But then that would actually take some time and effort.

        • Jen says:

          After my dogs vaccinations at 3 years she was very grumpy and tired and perhaps had a fever. Anyway when she was laying on the couch by my husband he started talking to her and she tried snapping at his face so my advice is to keep the environment calm and comfortable for a dog a few days after their vaccines.

      • I disagree that the rabies vaccine played no role in this dog’s aggressive outburst. Vaccines are known to cause inflammation in any system in the body, including the brain. Merck, in its Manual, also acknowledges that many types of vaccine can cause encephalitis (inflammation and lesions throughout the brain and CNS). I could also post many scientific research papers to support the fact that vaccines can cause brain damage.

        But good on you, Angry Vet, for telling the truth about over-vaccination and the possibility of side-effects.

      • kim says:

        Actually, for about a week after the vaccine, responsible pet owners should keep dogs/cats away from human family members for up to a week to see how the animal will react to vaccine. I have seen my share of complaints from pet owners that state emphatically that their pets ‘changed’ behavior after a vaccine. It is true, and it is very real. Less vaccine, people. One shot does NOT fit all, and every 5 years should do the job; like tetanus. Unless your beasts are in the wilderness daily, it is ridiculous!

      • Sabrina says:

        Get rid of the kid. He’s evil Probably hit the dog where the dog got his shot and he was sore. Just get rid of the kid. He’s dangerous.

    • Ellen says:

      Had you asked this question of a holistic vet, or anyone with years of experience dealing with and seeing adverse affects of immunizations, I’m not sure they would have given you the same response as the Angry Vet.

      There is much to ask in relation to your dog – vaccine schedules, food, health, etc., but vaccinosis can cause many odd behavioral issues, and I’m betting a detox would have been the first thing performed by a holistic vet.

      So sorry this happened to your child and I hope he/she recovered fully. I hate to ask what happened to the dog…

      • Heather says:

        My french mastiff tried to kill my son when he was a newborn.
        I noticed her acting strangely when I was pregnant, and she growled a couple of times when I brought him home. I use a holistic vet and they told me to get rid of the dog as well. We were looking for a child free home for her. My son was in his bassinet and had woken up to eat and made that “newborn” cry. The dog literally leapt across the room to attack him. Luckily my son’s father was there and had a superman moment as he grabbed the dog with adrenaline strength, but not before she took a big bite out of our bassinet. This dog had no prior behavioral issues. Point blank, the vet is right. I love my dogs but what would you do to a person who “viciously mauled” your child? Really? Dogs that attack and maul need to be removed immediately or you are to blame for what happens. Holistic vets will tell you the same thing as Angry Vet.

        • Natascha says:

          Angry Vet’s comment is a comment that only an ignorant person would make.

          If your dog attacks your child, means that the one in charge in your home is your dog. It is true that animals may become jealous when a new baby comes home and they are left aside. This could make them want to bite, bark, and maul to the newborn. But if you make your dog part of this moment he/she would have a different attitude towards your newborn.

          You don’t have to get rid of any pet if you are really a responsible person, you just have to train him well.

          If you still believe that the best option is to always get rid of your pet, I really hope you never get any other pet, you’re just not suitable for this responsability.

          • Dotcom says:

            “You don’t have to get rid of any pet if you are really a responsible person, you just have to train him well.”

            One who makes that kind of generalization can’t have much experience with dogs or kids. There are cases where some dogs have rages—it’s genetic or sometimes linked with brain disease. I’ve seen it in cockers and the dobie gentleman I mentioned above. He was a show breeder who won ribbons in both breed and obedience. It happened with the dog’s mother, too (she was also put down). He never bred that line again.

          • VK says:

            A lot of bad behavior in canines is overlooked by the owner who does not see the behavior as dangerous. If YOU are not the ALPHA DOG in the family,some dogs will step in and fill that role. This aggressive behavior is easy to spot. If your dog continues to bark and growl at your kids or neighbors, you must become the Alpha Dog. Put a short lead on his collar and every time he behaves badly, you reach for the lead and give it a small jerk appropriate for his size and say in a big voice=NO, BAD DOG. If you still see very aggressive behavior, you can put him in a cage for an hour or so away from the fun. I have seen children mauled by the “pet? and it can leave everlasting scars. You be the Alpha Dog instead of euthanizing him!

          • Rex Bouvier says:

            Some dogs are flawed just like humans. Other dogs have been inadvertently abused & mistreated, and consequently, psychologically & permanently damaged (just like abused children, who grow up to be killers & rapists). Usually if a dog viciously attacks a human once (esp. a close family member), it will attack again – even in a new home. Only a trained K-9 instructor, who owns a professional kennel facility, is possibly capable of housing & caring for such an unpredicable, damaged dog. One always has the option of finding such a K-9 instructor with a kennel facility and sending one’s beast off to boot camp for several months. Those several months can turn into several years unless the K-9 instructor decides the dog is too unpredictable and vicious, and therefore, decides to have the dog destroyed. Some dogs do not like babies. Usually dog people know not to get a dog until a baby is at least six months old. That is, one should not own an adult dog before the baby. A German shepherd puppy should be introduced into a home, when the baby is at least 6 months old – and the pup should not be older than 3 months. One cannot place the above-mentioned dog into a new home without children, because the dog may escape and attack a neighbor’s child. The only other option available is to send the four-legged maniac to boot camp for several months before making any decisions. Otherwise destroy the dog. Every dog owner will one day destroy their beloved pet – some sooner the others. If you don’t want to kill a dog, don’t own a dog. It’s a different story, when a dog attacks a teenaged child. Usually teenaged children deserve to be bitten. I was once one of those teenaged children, who was repeatedly bitten by my first very dominant male Bouvier. He sent me to the emergency room several times with torn up hands, wrists, and forearms. The forearm bites were the worst due to the soft tissue, which tears very easily. This male Bouvier lived for fourteen and a half years. How did my father stop this male Bouvier from continually attacking me? My father bought me a really big-boned, old-fashioned, male German shepherd dog, which was much larger than the male Bouvier. Once the shepherd matured and took over, the Bouvier was unable to attack me. Funny thing is that I was forced to rescue the Bouvier on a few occasions, because the male shepherd lost his temper and attacked the male Bouvier. Sometimes the male Bouvier would bark and something and inadvertently bark in the male shepherd’s ear. Sometimes the male Bouvier was allowed off-leash, which also triggered off the male shepherd. In the shepherd’s eyes, the male Bouvier had received preferential treatment by being off-leash. The male shepherd lived for twelve and a half years. Both males ended up living for each other during their geriatric years, so having 2 dominant male dogs at the same time can be quite disgusting and irritating at the same time. One can always acquire another dog to counter the already existing family “pet,” but one has to be an extremely experienced dog person to achieve the desired results – and dog nurturing, training, and socializing is not an option. All of my dominant male dogs have been socialized around babies from puppy-hood onward. If the dog is not socialized around babies from puppy-hood onward, the dog should not be allowed near babies and small children. Dominant breed dogs can be dangerous unless properly and fully socialized around all types of humans under all types of situations. German shepherd dogs are dominant breed dogs. Black Russian Terriers are dominant breed dogs. Bouvier des Flandres are dominant breed dogs. Giant Schnauzers are dominant breed dogs. Many toy and miniature dogs are also dominant breed dogs.

          • Emily says:

            Let me guess, you are a bully breed owner? Bully breed owners and their sympathizers are the only people dense enough to think putting a violent dog to sleep is “ignorant”. I especially love how your kind tries to equate recognizing legitimate differences in breed with some sort of weird case of “racism” against Pit Bulls, Cane Corsos etc. Certain dogs truly do have a higher prey drive than other dogs and it genuinely is not fair to all the small dogs in the area when you decide to have a bully breed as a pet knowing that it is bred to attack other dogs. Further, your incessant need to save the life of a violent dog over the lives of children and other people’s pet dogs is repugnant. Your one dog doesn’t have the right to kill other people’s pets or kids. Oh, and if an animal attacks it is highly likely to do it again- so putting the attacking animal up for “re-homing” and not being 100% honest about it’s brutal history is nothing short of being an accomplice to all future deaths that the dog plays a part in. It’s the height of ignorance and stupidity to harbor land sharks. Your type never realizes the truth until one of the unfortunate kids in your area(perhaps your own kid) gets it’s face ripped off.

            If a dog attacks and the dog is large and powerful enough to kill/maul another dog or person then the dog should be put down for the safety of it’s would be future victims. It’s not that hard to understand!

          • Emmi says:

            That’s ridiculous. While I agree that aggression can be lessened, a dog with a history of aggression should always be monitored carefully. However, this dog acted spontaneously, no history of aggression (at least none that were mentioned…people frequently miss stress signals, low-grade aggression signals like tensing of the lips, grumbling growls, etc.). It is entirely possible for a dog to be mentally unstable and have bouts of rage, in a sense. A dog like this cannot ever, ever be trusted, much less with a child.
            However, I hope that the woman was in the room at the time and knew for a fact that the child hadn’t shoved a pencil in the dog’s ear or something equally painful to elicit such an act of aggression.

        • Gail Cox says:

          so agree Heather. I’m glad your dog was stopped before he reached your baby.

    • Kathie says:

      Please check out The Rabies Challenge Fund on Facebook. You can learn about them here http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/ but you can ask questions on Facebook. If you do not have a Facebook account it is worth getting it just for this.

      Uncharacteristic aggression is also a symptom of Lyme disease. If you still have the dog, please send a blood sample to Dr. Cindy Holland’s laboratory at: http://www.protatek.com/index.html
      The rescue I have worked for for years and years will only send blood to that lab for all suspected tick born diseases. Even though we cover all of North America, we send blood there no matter what as we know the results are pristine. And the doctors at the lab are very willing to talk, extensively if necessary, with your vet to explain the results, etc. Since they are experts at tick borne disease discovery and treatment, your vet should be happy to listen. Having an expert on the line, one who does this day in and day out, can help your vet learn what he or she might never have learned in all his or her years of practice just because there was not an opportunity to learn it because it is rare in your area.

    • Halo says:

      I totally disagree with what Angry Vet said. His answer is what you would expect from a traditional vet. Rabies vaccines are well documented in causing aggression. Do some research google it. This is a known side affect. I experienced this firsthand after one of my dogs was vaccinated for rabies. You have read how a rabid animal acts in the wild, well its no different with a dog. You are putting the rabies virus into the animal with the vaccine and if everything goes correctly the dog is supposed to build up immunity and fight it off. Doesn’t always work this way though. Thank goodness you were there to protect your child. I fear for what could have happened. At the same time there is another victim here the german shepard. Too coincidental that the attack happens after the rabbies shot. Sometimes there is a window where side affects surface. With mine it was not only aggression it was also seizuring. My heart goes out to both victims.

      • joan vecsey says:

        Why do you think other labs con not be trusted? I am curious.

      • Penny Barker says:

        If “well documented,” please provide references. I mean peer reviewed journal articles, not anecdotal evidence.

      • Gail Cox says:

        Being from Australia where luckily we don’t have the rabies virus, I can only give my opinion which is based on common sense. If the rabies vaccine is known to sometimes cause aggression, then wouldn’t it make sense to keep the dog quarantined , that is away, locked up from small children for a period of time?

      • Chris b says:

        First of all the anger experienced in tabbies is due to the irreversible changes in the brain matter affected by the virus. Giving a vaccine does nothing of the sort and anything you read about behavior changes due to the rabbies shot has nothing to do with the vaccine.

      • kim says:

        Exactly true. People, stop and think. Vaccines invented by Pharma companies push the shots, repeatedly, offer bonuses for so many (quota), and it will cause issues in the blood. We have, and they have, a natural immunity to most things; however, a rabies shot should be given according to weight, and it is not! A 10 pound dog is given the same dose as a 110 pound dog- ASK about it. These other vaccines are just money-makers at your pets expense, many of which will eventually be life-threatening. Same with your kids!

    • Kelly says:

      First..Im sorry you had this issue. As a rescuer and GSD owner all of my life, I understand their behaviors pretty well. I ask that you absolutely ignore all of the comments stating that rabies vaccination causes aggression. That is complete and utter hogwash. With this, I agree with the vet.

      I do not agree however with “get rid of the dog”. GSDs can be a very difficult breed to understand….and contrary to popular belief , not the most easy going. You mentioned that she is 5 years old. Has she had any issues with pain ( hips, knees etc)? a 4 year old child can not comprehend that the “little growl” she exhibited meant “leave me alone”, and the dog does not understand that the 4 year old doesnt exactly know gentle from too rough. Its possible there WAS a warning that was not heeded. I had an elderly GSD when my kids were little. My then 3 year old kept pulling her tail…typical…she snapped. Didnt bite him..but came close. I in no way blamed the dog. Its possible your dog was in pain and the little one hit a nerve. Were I you, I would take your fur kid to the vet for a physical to see if she has any pain and inflammation in her neck, hips or back. GSDs are prone genetically to many musculoskeletal issues. In the meantime, do not leave the 2 alone together.

      Best of luck to you…

      • Heather says:

        The woman said viciously mauled. I have a GSD now as one of my pack and we both know their strength and what they are capable of.

      • Dotcom says:

        Yes, as Heather said, “viciously mauled.” Not the same as snapping unless the OP was exaggerating that a lot—not something I’d necessarily expect from someone who owned a dog for 5 years and survived the “toddler years” with their kid.

        The dog-child miscommunication thing isn’t just a GSD thing either. I had a pom who snapped at my daughter when she was 2. I separated them instantly, but never blamed anyone but me for taking my eyes off them. I didn’t rehome the dog, though. Even when he later tore open my hand several years later (he had congestive heart failure and was in pain at night). If he had bit my child like he did me, however, we probably would have had him put down as he was already at the end of his life and a dog bite (especially when it’s from an animal in pain) can be very serious.

        If any of our guys had randomly “mauled” our kid, they’d also be put down. Unless it was a stupid mistake on my part (like letting my kid play unsupervised or inappropriately with the dogs) there’s no way to guarantee a dog like that won’t hurt others—plus large ones who attack are very difficult to rehome.

      • Gail Cox says:

        You answered your own statement. If you own a GSD and have small children, the two don’t go well together. If they suffer from so many genetic problems and associated pain, then having little ones around them is not a good idea. Should choose a hardier breed or cross bred that is even tempered and no amount of tail pulling will cause biting.

      • Poppy says:

        I agree with vet. What difference dies it make what or why it happened? The child is 4. She will accidentally provoke that dog constantly. Kids dont mean to pick on dogs, they just don’t get it. They can be very rough, unintentionally and obliviously cruel, even. You cannot stop a 4 year old from being a 4 year old, or a GSD from respinding this way. I’m usually pro-dog, however this is common sense. Would you let a normally non-violent human near your child if they suddenly attacked it? Of course not. The dog has to go. He did not say euthanize it.

      • Jax says:

        I have had shepherds all my life and have never had an issue with anyone in my family & the dog. I had one that was so protective no stranger could approach me but when I had my first son, there was never an issue with the dog. We had a lab and the shepherd at that time and if one had to go out, I would put my son in his crib and lock his door while I ran the one dog out front. Never left him alone even for that short time with the other dog. If my dog attacked and mauled one of my children, he’d be put down. You were there to pull the dog off. What would happen if he attacked you while you were home alone with the baby. It’s unfortunately a dog that can’t be trusted and truthfully I don’t care what the child did. If the dog snapped at my son because he did something to the dog, I can understand that and I would be more cautious when they were together but mauling – that’s unforgivable.

    • Emily says:

      2 months ago my Bichon Frise got her rabies shot and within days stopped eating and then stopped drinking and then turned into a curly lump for 2 weeks, she wouldn’t play she wouldn’t do anything. After 2 weeks she seemed to be better except she was extremely hyper and started getting aggressive she still is. At times she will shriek if you touch her. Some days she is back to normal and others she vomits, won’t eat, is lethargic, will all of sudden wake from sleep and attack whoever happens to be closest. Her vet cannot find anything wrong and insist it cannot be related to vaccines but before getting that rabies shot she was a happy healthy normal dog.

      • Sakis says:

        Of course it is from the vaccine….google it!!to help get rid of these adverse reaction try thuja and lysine….google that too,both are well documented!!

      • Emily k. says:

        Oh, another Emily!

        Bichons are sweet dogs and it’s definitely outside of the breed standard for it to be acting aggressively. You should take it to a certified animal behaviorist and have it looked at- but be sure that you stay with the dog the whole time because a lot of them try to train their bully breeds by using the small, prey type dogs as unwilling bait/training tools.

    • Joe Felice says:

      Indeed, there are a lot of reasons for this, and some could have been physical, but they cannot be determined over the Internet. Animals, like people, are affected by energy. (I’m talking about vibrational, metaphysical energy, not activity level.) For some reason, the dog’s instinct could have been triggered by something the child did, or by something in the environment. Also, This could have been caused by misplaced aggression or anger. The only way to know for sure what triggered this event is to check in with the animal through an animal communicator. I do this frequently, and she is always able to tell me EXACTLY and ACCURATELY what it is that is happening! This having been advised, Angry Vet, hopefully, did not mean to put the dog down. A better answer would have been to find a new home for the dog where the condition(s) that precipitated the event do not exist. Many years ago, I had a beloved dog who developed separation anxiety. (Quite simply, I loved the dog too much, and she could not bear to be left alone as she got older.) She began to become destructive while I was away, even to herself. I could have medicated her, i.e., drugged her so she would basically sleep while I was gone, but I was not willing to do that, and there were no “doggie day-cares” in those days, or I would gladly have used one. At wit’s end, I surrendered her to the Colorado Humane Society with the agreement that it never euthanize her, but find a suitable home where there was someone present at all times. It took a while, but that is what happened. Of course, we missed each other dearly, but I’m hoping my baby’s soul understood that I was doing what was best for both of us. Now I have cats, who are not as susceptible to this condition, although I do know that some cats do, indeed get “angry” (our word, not theirs) whenever left alone for long periods. I think any beloved companion animal would pine for its human companion if left alone long enough. Animals are at once sensitive, emotional and highly intelligent. Do not ever underestimate them!

    • Amy Lambert says:

      Teresa, I am so sorry to hear about your experience. I am shocked by the Angry Vets response. There is a distinct and clear history of this kind of behavior related to pet vaccination. I am so sorry for your experience.
      This vet is about the WORST – trust your instincts and read up… there is so much information that will verify the relation between vaccines and aggression. th4dogs.org truth 4 dogs* also a very informative website / I follow on facebook. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/rabies-vaccination-and-aggression-in-dogs/

    • Jennifer says:

      he says the vaccine had no role to play in this attack, but how can anyone say that conclusively? It seems to me very odd that it happened in that short a time frame from getting that vaccine and it was a complete turn-around from what the dog once was! I hope your child is okay!

    • Lizy says:

      Sometimes rabies vaccines can have some reactions in some dog that can make them more aggressive. That will last few days, after that your dog will be the same.

    • Anna says:

      I don’t agree with the Vet. I’ve been doing rescue for 45 years and have seen countless “coincidental” situations occur soon after receiving a vaccination. Most commonly it is death or anaphylactic shock but have also witnessed behavior changes. Giving vaccines to animals is not unlike giving vaccines to Children. The adjuvants they put in the vaccines are toxic to living, breathing bodies. Watch the movie “Bought” and you will understand better why this happens. As for “getting rid of the dog,” she most likely reacted to something that was done to her. Work with her, train her and be ever-so-careful what you are feeding her (ample raw meat and raw bone is a must to supplement a home-made diet.) Most likely it was not even her fault that she “flipped.”

    • Fern says:

      According to Dr Jean Dodds a rabies vaccine has the potential to cause aggression, behavioural issues, lameness, Cancer,and death.

    • Michelle H. says:

      I would adopt the child out. Dogs should come first, and this one should go to a professional training school so that she can learn how to act properly.
      I know, I know, quite shocking.
      My opinion.

    • According to this article, the aggression is quite likely associated with the rabies vaccine. But the next question is if the aggression will go away.
      http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/rabies-vaccination-and-aggression-in-dogs/

    • Gale says:

      No role!!! BS…My German shepherd also was damaged by the 3 year rabies vaccine.He was a healthy normal dog until he received that vaccine, he started chewing his rear at the injection site and never stopped,he is bald on his rear, he excessively licks,bites,chews has major anxiety,excessively barks for no reason is very hyper…growls and has tried to bite…like humans animals also can have bad reactions to vaccines …it is very common but the medical profession is taught to look the other way and blame everything else but the vaccine….

    • Stella says:

      My family has owned and rescued small dogs for over 30 years. Aggression is the #1 behavior complaint following a rabies vaccine, and something we saw far too many times in shelter and rescued dogs. After seeing the devastation caused by vaccines in animals and people, we are never again injecting these poisons. Find the truth on sites like VaccineTruth. Also check with natural rearing breeders to learn the amazing turn arounds on their animals after stopping the shots, drugs, toxins; and by feeding the only correct species diet of raw meat and bones. Their small dogs live about twice as long as the vaccinated dogs and have none of the auto-immune and chronic diseases vaccines cause. I’m very sorry about what happened to your child. I know of more than 10 dogs killed by other dogs recently given a rabies vaccine. Conventional medicine is a total fraud.

    • Fern says:

      That’s exactly what Dr Dodds says can happen from a rabies vaccine. It’s not the dogs fault.

    • Lynn says:

      I have heard several times of similar situations where a pet goes in for their annual vaccinations and within hours up to a few days later the animal has turned aggressive to the point that they had to be euthanized because there was nothing the vet could do for them. And of course the vets are certain it had nothing to do with the vaccine. Same thing goes for the MMR vaccine and autism.
      Dig deep, research and learn the ingredients in vaccines as well as what happens when foreign proteins and toxins are injected into the blood bypassing our bodies natural defense system. Dr’s have no clue what they are doing to society as well as our loved ones. Wisdom and morality go a long way and its just not a part of our healthcare system any longer.
      Money overrides ethical conduct in almost every aspect of life and the innocent are the ones who suffer.

  2. Pam Harris says:

    This picture at the top of this page(vaccine page), a Schnauzer getting a vaccine in his back. What types of vaccines are given here? This is very near the site of the soft tissue sarcoma in my dog.

  3. Hello,
    We are here, reading your blog, because Dr Folley sent us a direct tweet (although neither of us follow the other).
    Generally liking what we are reading.
    In the UK, general veterinary practice recommends two part puppy vaccination followed by annual boosters. (DHLP) with a growing trend to additional KC(parainfluenza)/Bor(Bordetella).
    You may be pleased to know there are some Vet practices that deviate from this program and suggest that after one year of age a regime of biennial alternation between DHLP and Lepto2 gives adequate protection, but KC/Bor continues annually.
    No-one is sticking their neck out much further than that.

    As we are a registered charity rescue service we have external pressure to adhere to ‘best practice’ in all areas. Best practice, in terms of disease prevention by vaccination, means the most commonly accepted practices – currently full annual DHLP.

    The breed we work with – Border Collies – are commonly kept as working sheepdogs in the UK, a well as being popular as companions. This is pretty well the same worldwide, but historically in the UK, this has been a working breed for hundreds of years, only recently recognised as a breed for pet (Kennel Club) purposes.
    Consequently there are many more of this breed kept in farm/working environments, than in domestic homes.

    We take from both and re-home to both – depends on what the dog tells us it wants to do with its life – but we have noted a major difference in longevity and health between the two ‘classes’ of use.
    We would expect farm bred working dogs to live anywhere between 16 and 20 years with an average age of 17 yrs on demise.
    Pets – 13 to 16 years with an average age of 14 years on demise.

    So – other than a farm dog getting more exercise and living in a more demanding environment, we wonder if there are any other factors that may be contributing towards a longer life for working dogs than pets.

    Vaccinations are an obvious case for study here. Most farm bred or working dogs will get their puppy (duel) vaccination course but are never boostered for the rest of their lives. Some never get any vaccinations at all. Yet they live longer and (in our experience) are less prone to death due to tumours/cancers and stroke.
    If subject to either of those conditions, they tend to occur much later in life than in pets.
    We find this very interesting.

    What is your view on this? Do you know of any research into differences of longevity between working and companion dogs of the same breed?

    A dilemma it causes us is that when we take in a dog from a farm environment, ‘best practice’ means we have to immunise it, preferably before we move it off premises, in case natural imunities to localised infections do not protect it elsewhere.
    We feel we are potentially breaking the premise ‘do no harm’ which, although we are not veterinarians, is one factor at the root of our ethos of animal welfare and husbandry.

    • Angry Vet says:

      There is positively no reason to vaccinate every year for the 4/1. Read the site for our opinion about vaccination. Lepto is a different story as the immunity (what little there is and for the few strains that are vaccinated for) is fleeting and lasts only 6-9 months in some studies so yearly boosters are necessary if you choose this vaccine. As for working breeds ….I love working dogs and find that they live a more fulfilled life, are less obese and food obsessed, and are less bored and more stimulated. Whether that contributes to a LONGER life I don’t know that answer. Thanks for visiting from across the pond!

      • Tami says:

        I have two dogs (maltese/shih tuz mixed) hope that was spelled correctly.. the female 14 months old and the male is 7months. They were given the distemper, adenovirus, parainfluenza, and leptospirosis vaccine at 6 weeks by the breeder. Now reading I see some of that was not needed. I am trying to decide what vaccines I need to give them. They stay in the house and never go outside in the yard (paper trained) we do walk them on sidewalk on occasion. Please help me decide what vaccines are needed.
        Thanks from TN

      • Mia says:

        My question is: If a dog has been vaccinated for Leptospirosis for several years but fails one of the boosts, when you vaccinate it again do you have to have to give him a second boost after 4 weeks?

    • UKVet says:

      In the UK, the vet medicines directive is very strict, and this also affects what is considered ‘best practice’. But you should be able to do DHP only every 3 years and still stay within VMD labelling, there are vaccines licensed for this programme. L and Pi are still on annual licencing (for the immunity reasons above), whether you use them depends on your risk. I would think there is some benefit to Pi in a shelter situation (not to completely prevent but reduce the severity / risk of outbreaks), and depending where you are in the UK lepto can be a real risk. I’ve lost a couple of unvaccinated patients to lepto here.

      • Angry Vet says:

        I would agree with all of that. Just to note though…I have lost a couple of vaccinated dogs to lepto as well. People need to know that we only vaccinate for four serovars and there are hundreds out there that do not cross-protect.

      • Anton says:

        Aren’t all DHP vaccines equal?! Does this vary from country to country? Are some going to give shorter immunity than others?

    • joan vecsey says:

      I am not surprised by this. In spite of all the veterinary care, it seems our pet dogs and cats are not living longer. How can one trust the American Vet Assoc who once recommended indoor cats receive all sorts of vacs when they had little chance of exposure? If the tumors had not developed at site of vac, we never would have known. We have no way of knowing what a vac does to the body long term. How do we trust the drug companies when the 3 year rabies vaccine is exactly the same as the one year?

  4. Marilyn says:

    On Dec 10 the Vet gave my 4 year old cat shots for Rabies, ENT-FVRC and FELV all at the same time. She was sick for about 10 days then seemed to perk up after that. She threw up everyday for 20 days and continues to throw up almost daily. On Dec 30 we found a hole in her where the injection site was. It seemed to have eaten away the skin in that area. I was given antibiotics to help with the healing. She does seem to be getting better but I don’t think I will have her vaccinated ever again. My cats are indoor cats who never come in contact with the outdoors or other animals. If I do take them outside they are confined to a pet carrier or pet stroller. That being the case is it really worth the risk to have them vaccinated?

    • Angry Vet says:

      absolutely not necessary to vaccinate again

      • Janet Leslie says:

        I have just brought home a tiny yorkie. I have always kept my dogs up to date on their shots, she has had her 1st. Vaccines but from all I’ve heard here, and since. this pup will be inside most of the the time I am south full if I will have her spayed or keep her shots up to date. I just want her to be healthy, and live long. What do I need to watch out for in her health issues. She’s small 2.3 lbs.

        • Anna Dean says:

          Don’t neuter her, she needs her hormones. Small dogs like that are already compromised. Don’t vaccinate either!

      • Donna says:

        I have a rescued Shih Tzu.. He is sweet, his name is jojo. I also have a rescued Maltese that I have worked a year with 1:1 because she had fear aggression, she is now doing awesome. I have a another Shih tzu she’s just a ball of love. The rescue JoJo I’ve had him a month now, first day or two shy not understanding. I took him to the vet to get him a check up, chipped, and vaccinations. He got his vaccinations, he was fine. 3 weeks later I took him to the vet to get his boosters for the lyme/lepo The next morning (which would be today) he was sitting on my lap, I went to pick him up to put him down, so I could get up and he turned around and bit me in the face. It was definitely aggressive, not a lite bite, however, it didn’t go through to the inside of my mouth. Didn’t need stitches. It’s pretty swollen. Is this from the vaccinations, or should I look into a behaviorist because he is a rescue. He is 2-3 years of age. He is not food aggressive, or other animal aggressive, I even have a cat. I’m actually torn here what to do..

  5. Bryan says:

    What is the best procedure for giaradia my dog has had fendendazole 6 times and still positive. please help!

    • Angry Vet says:

      Can be very frustrating. There is no need to repeat fenbendazole 6 times. If doesn’t work the first five times won’t work the sixth…
      If there is no diarrhea sometimes can just leave it alone. If there is diarrhea you can try combination therapy with Drontal and metronidazole. Occasionally have to go to other drugs like ponazuril ,quinacrine and/or albendazole. Also, make sure that you are disinfecting environment and bathing the dog especially around the anus and tail as cysts tend to stick to the fur and reinfect. Also, how is he being diagnosed as positive …ELISA, zinc flotation and is the dog having diarrhea???

  6. Barbara Hoopes says:

    I have a toy poodle (5.5 lbs) that had a strong reaction to his lepto shot this year (his second time getting it). Lepto is endemic in our (rural) area, which is why we vaccinated him. The leg where he was injected was extremely painful–he would not even walk the afternoon after the shot and now (two days later) is still sensitive. Would this kind of reaction suggest he shouldn’t continue to be vaccinated for lepto every year? I wouldn’t mind dealing with this type of reaction but worry if it might be worse next year.

    • Angry Vet says:

      Lepto is a real danger in some areas. The vaccine is not without risks and is amongst the most implicated in reactions. If it were my dog I would not vaccinate him or her but it is a judgment call. Keep in mind we only vaccinate for four strains or so and there are hundreds and they don’t cross-protect. Even the ones we do vaccinate for immunity is fairlly fleeting, 6-9 months immunity by some accounts. I don’t vaccinate my dogs in long island.

      • Kathie says:

        I see you are in Bellmore. I am in the very NW corner of Nassau (a few blocks from Little Neck, Queens) and there is lepto around here. Perhaps it is because I live right by the water by a wild life preserve (drives my Cairn nuts! ) and there are critters galore who roam my property at night. Our Cairn is walked for about an hour on a 50′ lead every AM at around 5:30 and gets into all sorts of nooks and crannies. Since I first heard Ron Schultz speak a number of years ago we are a non-vaccinating family but lepto is something else. I was at another seminar with Ron and Jean Dodds a few years ago and asked them again about Lepto. Dr. Schultz said that although there were so many strains of lepto and the shot was so hit and miss, like bortadella, that if it was anything BUT lepto he would stay far far away from it. But he thinks lepto is different and that in an area like mine the shot is warranted and, at least twice a year. I HATE HATE HATE to do it but I trust Dr. Schultz more than just about anyone.
        The practice where I take my dog still tries to vaccinate every year. I printed out the AMVA guidelines, that were published quite a while ago and the owner of the practice doesn’t want to see it. ($$$???) OTOH the vet I use in the practice is very much in favor of my not vaccinating except for rabies (NY State) and said she has seen too much lepto to not vaccinate for it. So I guess Lepto is a judgement call. With all the critters around me, living right by the water and a wildlife preserve, and the distinct presence of lepto in our area makes this necessary. And it breaks my heart because my current rescue (about 4yo and super healthy – eats either Stella and Chewys or home made raw with all the good stuff, lots of calcium, etc.) was so sore from the shot he had last month that we gave him tramadol. I felt so badly but should he have come down with lepto – well the soreness was worth it.
        As an aside, what is your take on Vitamin C mega doses and parvo. My rescue has heard that giving megadoses of Vitamin C to dogs who are in a kennel environment with parvo offers a tad of protection. When we get mill dogs that were “released” (yeah sure – more like thrown onto the road to get killed being too old to reproduce) we have had a few instances where they ended up in shelters with parvo. Since the shelters would not let us take them or do anything medical until they were ours in 10 days (shelter hold period), as we were allowed to give them treats we went on the rumor that Vit C offers some protection and gave them lots and lots of the kids chewable Vit C as “treats” for the 10 days. None of the Cairns got parvo. Most of the rest of the shelter did. This is just hearsay and not even correlation. But we were amazed. What is your take on that? (I forgot to ask Drs. Dodds and Schultz that question.)

        • Angry Vet says:

          dogs manufacture all the vitamin C that they need

          • Kathie says:

            Thanks! I know (knew) that. It was just that, out of desparation the rescue I work for went with the rumor of the extra Vitamin C.

            I guess we have a hearty breed. Actually I know it. The pups were lucky. I really appreciate your having this blog.

            I am wondering though, if there was some connection and an excess of Vitamin C did something. We will never know though because, at least in my opinion, a well run clinical trial would sacrifice some dogs and I am not OK with that.

            I am a psychologist and when I used to teach I did dissertation advising as one of my duties. Creating “good” trials with the right statistics is a daunting task. It probably could be done here, but I could not, personally, morally, permit it to happen because even though all sorts of things are permitted to be done to dogs experimentally, parvo – no way no how in my soul.

            Wouldn’t it be great if mega doses of Vitamin C could help with immunity. And wouldn’t it be great if… … …

          • Happy Vet says:

            Not during times of stress and illness they don’t.

  7. UrbanCollieChick says:

    Is there any way you could provide references to the proof that:

    1. Vaccines have been shown to not be responsible for allergies, pruritis and IBD. You did cite after all that ACUTE allergies and other immunoresponses/diseases can occur since an intense immune response is stimulated by vaccines.

    2. That the reports of the lyme vaccine causing nephritis and kidney failure have been largely discounted? Maybe I missed something but the last time I checked the Cornell site, a new vaccine was still being worked on because of these issues. Also there was quite a bit of wonder – and some have related these problems to the issue – of why the human lyme vaccine was pulled years ago. The only other reason I hear of is lack of demand, but that can’t be it. I’m not convinced. I live in NYC and know far too many people with lyme. It’s more prevalent than the news has ever covered. If an effective vaccine were available, believe me, people would be lining up in droves to get it.

  8. Marge Weeks says:

    I have a questions about distemper shots and rabies shots. My 6 month old just has all of her initial shots, but next year, why can’t she be vaccinated with the 3 years shots for both? My vet said he does distemper every year until they reach a certain age. My cats do not go out, and I have 5 cats. It is hard for me on one income, so I at least want them to go every 3 years for shots.

    • Angry Vet says:

      You do not need Distemper every year. Ask him for the reference that says cats only have one year worth of immunity after vaccination.

      • sherry says:

        what do you say as a response to pushy vets who say… ” then if you are not going to vaccinate…. I want to do a titer to check immunity.”
        The vet I worked for used to use this argument and then clients would just go ahead and vaccinate because after the vet would explain how expensive the titer was the vax was always so much cheaper…. they would cave and vaccinate.
        The little secret was the added percent of cost the clinic would add to the titer.
        So I guess my question is how do you say no to both the titer and the vax to pushy vets.

  9. Caroline says:

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    Would you recommend Lyme vaccine for dogs in upstate NY (by Albany)? We do take them hiking with us and live on the edge of a nature preserve. One of my dogs has problems with vaccine reactions, so I will not give it to her. But would you recommend for dogs that do OK with vaccines, given this geographical region?

    Since my one dog had problems I’ve been reading Dodds and Schultz’s research, but they recommend to evaluate Lyme based on your area…. although I did read that Schultz does not give Lyme even though he lives in an area where Lyme is endemic.

    I understand certain breeds are more susceptible too- I have a havanese and 2 poodle mixes- small dogs. The one who has the reactions may have also been over vaccinated as she was a stray and we had to start from scratch with her vaccines.

    Appreciate any guidance at all!

    • Angry Vet says:

      judgement call…

      Most dogs with deer ticks do NOT contract disease (5-10%). Disease is usually mild and cured with antibiotics in dogs. Vaccine efficacy is ok studies show anywhewrre frfom 70% to 100% (yea right) effective. Focus should really be on tick control and going through your dogs daily during tick season. I don’t vaccinate my dogs…doesn’t mean that’s the right answer

      • Caroline says:

        Thank you for your reply. I think I will hold off and just work on managing the ticks. My dog had such a bad reaction last year to her second rabies vaccine (mild reaction the first time) that I now question everything….guess that’s not a bad thing!

      • Simonello says:

        Cher Monsieur,
        je lis vos commentaires qui me semblent fort intéressants, la vaccination de l’animal étant un débat assez cmplexe, j’ai un chien et me demandait ce qu’il fallait faire comme un vaccin, et mon vétérinaire propose un test intéressant qui permet de contrôler l’immunité de l’animal par sérologie, permettant de savoir ce qu’il faut faire comme vaccin ou pas, si vous voulez des renseignements n’hesitez pas

        • Angry Vet says:

          oui oui …. I guess

          • Claire says:

            Your French correspondant says that he read your comments/blog with great interest and agrees that vaccination of animals is a complex debate. He has a dog which apparently has been called for vaccination but his vet proposed an interesting alternative which permits the ‘control’ (sic) of immunity by serology and allows one to know if it is necessary to vaccinate or not. I translated because he asks the question I would have done which is whether you use titre testing for your animals or patients. Seems to be a sensible alternative and one that provides a pet owner with a little more authority and support for a decision not to vaccinate. There is huge pressure from vets on owners on lots of the issues you raise – vaccination, neutering and raw feeding for instance. For those looking for help with ticks that are also wary of spot on products, Billy No Mates and Garlic are remarkably effective and I speak as a very new convert as I was really unsure they would work but they do appear to. Great to see this blog by the way. There must be lots of vets out there that have the same concerns as you do but it’s nice to have one speaking out and it helps steel those of us who are making the sometimes difficult choices not to over-vaccinate our dogs/pets. Thanks.

  10. Julie says:

    I have a 2 year old Snowshoe cat my husband and I adopted at 7 months old. When we got him, he was already kind of sneezy the day we got him, and the rescue vaccinated him that day. Now I understand that Feline Herpes is brought out by stress (my older cat had already been exposed) and, though he has an utterly bulletproof temperament, a new environment is stressful, but he was so so sick. It took over a month of antibiotics, a medicine to dry his mucus production (he drooled constantly and had copious bright green discharge. We had to wash his face several times a day.), and steroids to clear up his infection. I thought he was going to die. Could the vaccines have contributed? I understand how vaccines work, but I wonder if it was just too much for his system all at once.

    I practice conservative vaccination anyway (except rabies, because, you know, the law) but have always wondered.

  11. Just a quick line to thank you for your site. We see around 200 dogs a week at our training center. For the last 10 years we have seen dogs been neutered getting younger and younger. I have been telling our clients not to do this as I have noticed a dramatic change in the development of our clients dogs. It has been so difficult to get our clients to listen to us, as there vets tell them younger the better. I have felt that I was out of touch or just miss reading the situation. You have confirmed my fears and I would like to link your site to mine so that our clients can read it for themselves.
    Many Thanks
    Martin Winfield

  12. Hey there~

    I just wanted to express my appreciation to all involved for this fascination discussion!

    I would like to add that, over the years, I have seen a number oddities in health and/or behavior, sometimes severe in nature to the point of death, that occurred within two weeks of being given a clean bill of health at their routine vet/booster visit. I feel the general consensus out there goes waaaaaay overboard with vaccinations. :’( It’s costing a lot of heartache for pet owners plus an unreasonable amount of frustration for those who are trying to educate pet owners.

    Thanks for all you’re doing! =)

    Shari~

  13. meer says:

    Thank you for posting this! After doing heavy research, I don’t believe I will be vaccinating my small yorkies again. They hardly go outside and they stay in their fenced in private yard.

    A month ago I had my 3 year old updated on her vaccines. They gave her DHPP. The next 48 hours she was in unbearable pain, crying, yelping, uncomfortable, etc. We took her back for a steroid shot to ease pain and she was okay a few hours after.

    Two weeks ago, she started having seizures. Just one at night. We kept a close eye on her, and with in the last few days she has had multiple ones every night only lasting 10-30 seconds.. Vet did blood work and came back normal. Will be doing further recommended tests.

    Of course I don’t believe my vet will say she thinks the vacs would do that but I have a suspicion and will not have them done again.

  14. Chisco Marin says:

    hello!
    We life in Zaragoza, Spain. We have an exactly dog as in your photo “vaccinations”.
    Her name is Laika. She came at our home from “house of hurt dogs”. We don’t know if she has race. Can you tell us something about that dog.
    Thanks for all.

  15. Darlene Hayes says:

    I discovered last year my 3 year old Sheltie had Lymes. I got him when he was 4 months old and since that time he had been on Frontline Plus. But because we could not determine his on/off limping, a blood test was done for Lymes and it was positive. He was given antibiotics and his antigen levels went down to an acceptable level. The vet suggests that I get an annual Lymes shot. Is this necessary?

    • Ellen says:

      Go to Dogs Naturally Magazine, and download the free e-book about Lyme. In addition to debunking a lot of the fear, ask your vet why the C-6 to confirm Lyme after the 4DX only shows possible exposure, is so much more expensive ($116) than the other making it “cost-effective” for us to just go ahead and treat a dog that may have been only exposed.

      Like someone else posted here about titers, it never seems to be the safer routes are in our favor monetarily. I’d like my own vets to get a Vacci-check machine for in-house quick titering results.

      The vaccine itself is bacterial, about 60% effective, lasts less than nine months, has greater potential to cause severe adverse reactions than to protect the animal, and was removed from human vaccine options because of its ineffectiveness. Plus, dogs vaccinated still contract Lyme, and now anaplasmosis is the next best tick-borne disease showing up in epidemic proportions.

      Frontline Plus, like all the others, is a pesticide that is NOT a preventive since the parasite has to bite the animal anyway to receive the toxin that kills it. I no longer use this product unless absolutely necessary because of an infestation like we encountered last year after our non-winter in upstate NY caused a bizarre parasite event into the spring and summer. I then only watch and wait, never doing a monthly, and haven’t applied it at all since spring of 2012.

      Personally, I feel it’s safer to treat my dogs with doxycycline if necessary than to subject them to a basically useless vaccine that can do more harm than good.

      • Mihku Paul says:

        This is a great site! Found via a friend’s fb page. I’ve been wondering about vaccines for several years, now, because my mother raised GSD’s and they were primarily outdoor dogs and while they had the legally required shots, they didn’t have all these other things that many vets recommend now. So, my own dogs, rescued pitbull pups, have gotten all the recommended shots (LOTS of pressure to increase amount/ frequency of vaccinations these days) and my female contracted virulent lymphatic cancer at 8 and had to be put down. Now, my male is totally allergic to topical tick preventatives of ANY type and I just use vigilance and bathing and removal. Had a severe reaction to Frontline and had to be nursed back to health. I am now delaying his “boosters” as he has had shots during his annual exam and is always lethargic afterward. Same with my cat. The vet wants to “immunize” her for everything but the kitchen sink! So glad I found this blog. I feel like the vets are playing on my ignorance and fear for my animals. Annual cost for exam and shots has gone from 60-80$ to almost $300!

  16. Gys says:

    Last year, my 10 year old Yorkie Poo had a KC nasal vaccine. Three weeks later, she started a 6-month cycle of/battle with what was diagnosed as IBD and/or protein-losing enteropathy. She lost muscle mass, half her 20-pound body weight, lost most of her hair, had diarrhea for over 4 months, vomited at times, had little appetite, low energy. During all this she also had a toxicity to metronidozal. All sheer hell for her. It took me and my vet (who is wonderful) over 6 months to nurse her back to herself. However we were maintaining with 1/4 of a 5mg tab of prednisone twice a day and one Azathioprin capsule every other morning. She’s been fine for over 5 months Then in June, she had another KC nasal vaccine, and guess what? Almost the exact same thing but something I have caught much eariler this time, but now she is highly anemic (hematocrit has fallen from normal to 18). Less diarrhea but also far less appetite and a rapid decline in protein that we corrected by quickly raising the prednisone and Azathioprin dose, but now the red blood cells are low. Absolutely nothing in her world had changed but getting the KC nasal vaccine. Last year, same thing, but the heartworm meds changing at the same time threw me off and I never thought of the KC vaccine. Anyway, my very simple question is this…could a nasal KC vaccine cause this storm? When I think back over the years, when she was younger and healthier, she very often did return from her vet visits (3 times a year just for grooming but once a year combined with her vaccinations) and have diarrhea but was probably strong enough to fight it off. Anyway she is currently hospitalized for further analysis and they are trying to figure out if her marrow is producing red blood cells. Just thought I’d ask an opinion. Thanks.

    • Sakis says:

      Sorry but you should be ashamed of yourself for destroying the health of your dog again and again and still wondering what could have caused it…..

      • Poppy says:

        She is not a vet. What is wrong with her vet for continuing to do this while ignoring the patterns? Really? I was told the intranasal was ok. I did not know, and was told it was impossible, to cause anything other than face swelling. Thats not true. I posted below. In addition to all that his nose was swollen and inflamed also. You really should humble yourself. This could so easily happen to you, and one day it might, you or your dog’s health. My hypervigilance and protectiveness was subverted. Really, responder, remember, “There but for the Grace of God go I.” In other words, you are lucky it hasnt happened to you.

  17. kitty says:

    I agree with all the fellow posters who are thankful for this site as it such a wonderful forum for info and discourse. My question for the Angry Vet regarding vaccinations: Why is it ( I feel a bit like Seinfeld here) that the cost for titers testing is so much greater than the vaccines themselves???? It seems to me the pricing structure within the conventional Vet community has been designed this way quite purposely! It really grinds my gears that this is the case- Comments?

  18. erin says:

    Interesting information – thank you. What is titer testing all about and what are your thoughts on it?

  19. Trish says:

    I rescued a 10 month old Westie last year from a local shelter. The shelter gave her a Parvo Vaccine but it was not noted on her paperwork. The rescue that pulled her form the shelter told us she did not have one. So when I took her to my vet for her welfare check, he gave her another Parvo vac. Three days later, she was diagnosed with Parvo. Could her having two Parvo vaccinations within a five day period have caused her to contract Parvo? She was in the shelter less than 24 hours before her rescue.

  20. Linda Medero says:

    Just wanted to say thank you for having a presence on the web. Sometimes as a hobby breeder, I feel like a “lone voice crying out in the wilderness”. While my own primary vet does not share my perspective, at least he is tolerant of my approach to canine care. Unfortunately, many of my puppy owners’ vets are not so understanding. It makes it difficult to advise “less is better” when the new owners are bombarded with conflicting opinions by well-meaning (I hope) but ill informed vets.

    I try to give all the information I can for new owners to make the best decisions regarding all aspects of canine health but finding DVMs that back the newer protocols is a godsend.

    Thanks again.

  21. LISA says:

    Dear Doctor., The little love of my life Sugar plum 5 months old 4lbs. We had her since May 9th my birthday, She was 6 weeks old , she may have been 5. anyway a very playful good natured kitty great personality very lovable!!! Took her to the clinic at Petco where shots are 5o dollars.She had a 4 in 1 and a strongid T now she is lethargic, hissing, biting she bit me on the face and i am her mom she loves me, now she just sits around looking but doesn’t move if she does she walks very slow.not eating or drinking either!Please What can I Do for my Kitty.?? Please help if this is costing money I dont have any.spent on shots.

  22. Adriana says:

    Hello,
    I have a question about the DAPP vaccine. I have recently started working for Animal Control in my city and I’ve seen an increase in kennel cough and parvo in the dogs that are brought in to the facility. I have a jack Russell/ beagle mix that had parvo when he was a pup and he recovered. I was told that his defense against parvo should be good and he won’t need the shot as he is almost two years old. I don’t make much contact with the animals in the shelter since I’m on the clerical side, but the kennel attendants walk all over the place and obviously they can carry the diseases in their shoes which I can pick up with my shoes. I disinfect my shoes so that I don’t bring it into my house, but I’m still scared that my dog can contract those diseases. Is it a good idea to get the DAPP vaccine or should I give him only specific vaccines separately?

  23. angela says:

    I took in a rescue dog and his pregnant mate that were going to be put down for over population. The male was spayed and given his shots days after he arrive in my home. 9 days after getting his shots he got kennel cough, we started treated with clavamox, 5 days later the mama dog got it and then all 6 babies got it a few days later. None of these dogs except babes and mama were in the same room. So since Daddy had his shot and got kennel cough from the live virus vaccine is he immune now or did it not work?

  24. Cheryl burnett says:

    I have a 2 year old Azawakh and a 2.5 year old iggie. What are your thoughts about vaccinations for my sighthounds, especially my Azawakh, who had a severe reaction to rabies last year with an overnight stay at the hospital. Should I be doing titers?

  25. VISHY says:

    Hi : I live in India with a 5 yr old golden retriever and 1 yr old lab. They both are due for yearly rabies and corona, lepto etc etc. The Dr here say we could give everything in one go. I am worried it would have cross reactions. Tried to convince me but I have denied to give them all in one sitting. Is it a norm in the US. I think we should give them the vaccinations because of the poor hygienic condition that is prevailing in here. would appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks

  26. Beth says:

    I have a question regarding distemper. I have two twin cats. I am slightly behind on their one year vaccinations (approx 2 months late.) They were vaccinated for everything up to 14 weeks. I believe a cat I petted at the shelter today had feline distemper. I was careful and washed my hands however I’m slightly concerned about exposing my cats to the virus. Any chance they could get severely sick? Or is it likely they are immune?

  27. Denise Decker says:

    Did she get a leptospirosis vaccination as well? Some suspect this shot of causing aggression. I do agree with “the vet” though kids trump dog..I had to put my 3 year old German Shepherd down for the same reason. I miss or something terrible to this day but I couldn’t live with myself if she had attacked one of my children.

  28. dennis says:

    My 3 year old Chihuahua mix is on antibiotics at the moment. Is it prudent to have him get his annual rabies shot today?

  29. Lynn says:

    Why is almost everyone acting like the Vet said to put the dog down (dead down) when all he said was get rid of it???? I have had a number of animals that while wonderful animals I knew could NEVER be trusted with a child (and some couldn’t be trusted not to try eating an adult) And as many of us know some breeds are more prone to problems then others… And I would also like to know how many of you are Vets as well? You are asking a licensed veterinarian to make a diagnosis based solely on the poor info that you give him… And then complain about what he has to say. It’s not like he has the dog in front of him to do an exam on! Of course he is going to say not only what is best for the dog… But for the child too! That said as a mother myself I would never want a dog around my child who had already attracted her once… There is the very strong possibility that the dog may do so again! Been there, didn’t want the T-shirt! I too “Got Rid Of The Dog” by taking it to one of the best NO KILL animal shelters and had it posted as a NO CHILDREN family! The Vet NEVER said kill it!!!

  30. Wow. I have always questioned vets who insist on giving allot of vaccines. Good to know that many of them aren’t necessary. I will have to bookmark this article for the next time I have one of my fur babies in for a vet visit!

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  32. ruth says:

    I adopted a kitten last year. He was only 1.5 lbs and his age questionable as he was abandoned at the shelter, but estimated 5-6 weeks. They did his initial vaccines before I ever saw him, so if he had reasons, I’m but aware of it. Due to losing my job I didn’t get him in for any other shots until this week. Yesterday he got rabies, feline leukemia and something else all at once. He is 10 months old now, btw. From last night to this morning he slept in the same spot for 12+ hours. Ate wet food last night, used the litter box this morning, but is still very lethargic and hisses if I try to touch him. Cried like crazy when I picked him up to put him on a bed.

    They want him for boosters in 3 weeks… he is mainly indoor, but has escaped from the back porch numerous times by breaking the screen so he isn’t allowed out there anymore. Do I really need to get him boosters? I feel terrible that I wasn’t more educated and let them overload his little system like that! I’m torn between waiting another 24 hours and taking him back today. He is usually insanely active and I’m very worried.

  33. ruth says:

    Um sorry for the typos. Posting from mobile. I meant to say if he had reactions to his first kitten vaccines, I am not aware.

  34. Denise says:

    I am very glad I came upon this website. Unfortunately, I wish I could have found it sooner. My eldest male 9 y/o cat just had his leg amputated from a recurrence of fibrosarcoma. The surgeon and oncologist stated it was most certainly from the rabies vaccine. He has already gone through radiation and a previous surgery, so I know it will return…just a matter of when. It is frustrating because before this happened, I never knew that this even existed. All 3 of my cats have been adopted as kittens from local shelters and were forced to have these vaccines either by them or our local vet, even though they are declawed and will never be out of the home. It is very sad to know that I thought I was doing the right thing by what had been suggested, and in other circumstances having no option, to have this done. I know that I cannot undo what has happened to my little one now, but what can be done to prevent this from hopefully occurring to my other 2 younger female cats (5 and 3) and to any future cats? When I mention this to most, they had no clue of the risks, as neither did I. I really feel I owe this my little one. Thank you for all your help.

    • Susan says:

      I do not vaccinate strictly indoor cats ever, please do not do it. It can mean that you can not board your cat(s), but cat sitters will come to your home.

  35. Angela in Virginia says:

    I’m only slightly confused by this post. I have 3 cats, and have always subscribed to the minimalist medicine treatment for my beloved feline children. If they are well, they don’t need to go to the vet. If they are sick, treat only what’s wrong. I’ve also gotten adept at only getting the shots and not the barage of other “necessary” bill-inflating services the big-business vets in our area want to shove down my throat with the guilt trip of “don’t you looooove your kitties?”?

    Here’s my question? Is your assertion that adult cats do not need repeated boosters of rabies vaccines? I had read that the newer shots were good for at least 2-3 years. Most counties require proof of vaccination, but do not require licenses for cats. It would only become an issue if we had to board them or if someone challenged us.

    Could you clarify this point?

  36. caroline says:

    hiya

    I’ve read many articles about whether or not to vaccinate older dogs, i’m totally confused and in a dilemma as i have 2 dogs, one that is 2yrs old and one that is nearly 14yrs. I don’t want to take the older dog for a vaccination if she does not need it, she has a sensitive tummy and the slightest thing can give her diarrhea for days.

    Please could you advise.

  37. Kristine says:

    Hi, am wondering how to find out if Lepto is endemic in my area? My 3yo ACD has had horrible reactions to thos vaccine the last 2 times he received it, in spite of taking benadryl beforehand. We live in a rural area near a lot of standing water and with wildlife I have read to typically be carriers. So it seems all the risks are there.

  38. Basenji Lover says:

    Are some breeds more apt to have adverse reactions to certain vaccines?

    Current vet has absolutely poisoned my basenji puppy by revaccinating every few months. Was instructed by his breeder to avoid Lepto and Corona as her bloodline dogs have adverse reactions. Vet administered those, as well as every other vaccine they could. Dog now has severe gastro issues, losing weight rapidly, refuses to eat or drink, lethargic, severe bowel problems. What are the long term problems we should look for or expect?

  39. jessica says:

    I have 3 cats and there all indoor(i havent give them any vacc.after they were a year)…i recently got a puppy and only have the dog for 4 day it was diagnosed with parvo . Now my question can my cats get parvo or something else from being around my puppy?

  40. Megan says:

    Hi, my veterinarian just had my puppy in his hospital for two days, she had gotten parvo, just a week before her second vaccine was due. She was almost gone when we brought her in and is home with us now. When I read the paperwork regarding what medications she had been given in the hospital, I read that she had been given the vaccine booster, while sick! Is this normal!? Is this okay? I was not aware that you should give a vaccine to a very sick puppy. Now I am afraid it will lower her immune system and cause her to fall ill again, as she is still very, very fragile at this point. Please let me know your opinion on this.

  41. St Louis SEO says:

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  42. Gea says:

    I have a chihuahua mix and he just received his second vacinations. He is really tired and looks like he doesn’t feel good. Is there anytime of pain reliever you can give your dog. He’s almost 2 years.

  43. Jo says:

    Love this website!! Thank you for adhering to the “do no harm”!!!
    My question is regarding your recommendations for monthly heartworm
    treatments. I am all on board with the vaccine schedule that you recommend!! But need to know more about your input on the heartworm treatment!
    Very sad thing is that even within the medical community for humans….the “do no harm” is missing in a huge way. So many Drs are ignorant and play right into the hands of Big Pharma. My husband has chronic lyme disease and coinfections and through all my research and studying on this topic, it has opened my eyes to so much that is corrupt and evil within our medical community and government as a whole. Thank you for being vets that truly care about the animals that you are attending to.

    • Angry Vet says:

      really depends on where you live in the country but in general
      1. Hw does exist and is a bad disease if undetected for long periods of time
      2. Hw preventtive is extremely well tolerated and very effective at preventing disease
      3. Most heartworm preventatives also deworm for intestinal parasites as well

  44. Amanda says:

    I got a kitten from who I thought were responsible owners. They told us their cats were vaccinated a lot because they are outdoor cats.

    I was told she was 8 weeks. I said she was a bit scrawny for 8 weeks, but they shoved her in my hand and insisted I take this little bundle of joy.

    She eats, sleeps, plays, goes to the toilet and drinks normally. She is inseparable from me and is not a nasty cat.

    I thought at 8 weeks I could get them vaccinated. I found out she was only 6 weeks. I was really upset about it.

    The people who gave her me came to visit to see how she was doing. I told them “look at her, does she look fine?” Her hair is patchy and I got told to treat her for ring worm.

    She had an allergic reaction from the ringworm treatment, and then the vet told me it was probably mange. So I started treating her for mange. She doesn’t have mange now apparently. She has fleas. So I took her to be de-flead by the vet because obviously I felt so incompetent.

    They said she has no fleas, maybe she has worms because she isn’t gaining weight.

    I de-wormed her though!

    The original owners then told me that none of their cats have actually been vaccinated, but if they told me that, I wouldn’t have taken her. None of their adult cats, so their two litters are probably just as sick.

    My kitten is still playing and very loving, but she’s gone into shock again.

    Her vaccinations are next week. Is this going to help her get better, or do you think she’s slowly deteriorating?

  45. Silvia says:

    Hello, I have done a lot of research on this topic. Im no expert but im sure I do not want to keep vaccinating my dogs! I have a 7 year old schnauzer that thru the 7 years he’s had 5 series of vaccines. The last one was given just a few months ago, which I now regret. I have another 3 month old schnauzer he got his 1st vaccines before he came home and another set at 10 weeks. What I want to know now is besides me cooking healthy food for my dogs at home and making sure they are getting all the nutrients they need.. is there anything else I need to do to make sure they stay strong and healthy enough?? Im really nervous about putting them on a raw diet, so I rather cook it and give them a few raw bones to help them have healthy teeth! Please any advice would be appreciated. :)

  46. Millie Stevens says:

    I just got a two year old pug, I was told she is up to date on all vaccines but was not given any papers or rabies tag, will it hurt my dog if I give her the distemper vaccine even is supposedly had it done before?

  47. charley storey says:

    Hi, i have a japenese akita cross rottweiler at 1 year and 3 months. We got him as a 9 week puppy from a great family, we got him his first jabs and it went fine. There was no reaction. Since then he had grown great and was a great dinner lover. My dog is the most vibrant, fun lively dog going. Now its come to his year later jabs after his first vaccine. On friday he went to the vets for his 2nd booster vaccines the 5 in 1 jab and general check up, the morning before he had the appointment he was fine eating was normalwith bundles of energy
    As the vet had checked him over and everything was ok, the booster was giving but as the vet entered the needle my dog bucked back making the vet release one hand squeezing the skin but kept hold of the needle. we then regained control and the vet continued to push the vaccine fluid then reliefed the dog. The vet then rubbed it over explained it was ok and we were on our way. On the way home he seemed slow, unresponsive and tended to lie down. We brought him home and let him sleep for majority of the day. We frequently took him for little toilet walks. But it came to feeding him and he wouldnt eat. He nibbled at the food then nothing. He is has not played with any toys. He wont drink and looks very lifeless when out walking.. i’m worried now as this is not my dog. I dont want to take him to the same vet to be told theres nothing wrong but its the only one around for a while. any advice….quickly.

  48. Lori says:

    If your dog gets sick ( diarreah & vomiting ) following a vaccine, can you opt out of ever vaccinating again? legally that is………

  49. Pat Permuy says:

    My 4 1/2 year old Yorkie, Roscoe had his annual check up today (he’s had one every year). He received a rabies shot, Distemper/Parvo/DAPP, & Bordetella. He was fine when I got him home, he ate, drank water & was his normal self until about 3 hours later. He was extremely hyper & uncomfortable, running from my lap to my husband’s, running in & out of his crate, running across the couch rubbing his face in the cushions, he was panting & could not get comfortable. This started about 3 1/2 hours after he received the vaccines & it went on for about 1 hour. He’s never acted like this before & I was wondering which meds he may have had a bad reaction to. I always ask my vet to only give my dog vaccines he has to have since he is strictly an indoor little guy. I was very concerned when this first time event happened & was extremely relieved when he settled down. What happened? How can I avoid this happening again???? Thanks for listening :)

    • Cindy says:

      Separate his shots
      Dont give lepto.
      Stop vaccinating him when he gets mid age
      Dont make the mistake I made with my 3 lb chi
      Now she has no blood platelets and we hope she lives

  50. Bandit is 14 years old and my 82 year old mothers companion. Bandit’s purpose has been her Nana. Every morning they start out at the retirement community to visit. Bandit walks nana’s pace with patience and pride. The residents love to see them coming. They all have treats for her and she has a devotion to all of them.
    Unfortunately, this is not going to happen anymore. Bandit was taken to the Vet for vaccinations and to be groomed last Tuesday. Saturday morning she had a seizure that lasted around five minutes. She was walking prior to the seizure and fell on her side shaky uncontrobbly and cried like a baby. This has traumatized my mother. We took bandit to the vet and he said, if seizures continued it was something very serious and that he would refer her to a neuologist. She was seen by the Neurologist on Monday. All of Bandits blood work was normal. The Neurologist put Bandit on Kepra hoping to stop the seizures. Bandit is declining rapidly and after extensive research I whole heartedly believe the vaccinations are the main contributor to her illness. Her body was stressed by the vaccinations and grooming that it altered her brain chemisty. She has small seizures that last about 30 seconds. Please help save Bandit. What can we do to help get her through this? You take a perfectly healthy dog to the vet and the ones that are supposed to help your dog have signed her death warrant. Is there anything that would help to reverse this?

  51. Sorry about all the typos. I found your webiste and was in a hurry to post about Bandit condition.

    Thanks,
    Shirley

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  53. David says:

    There are many diseases in people that are either known to be caused by or are speculated to cause a variety of diseases.and people may not know about that diseases.but your blog is helpful to provide the info about diseases and vaccinations.

  54. Lesley says:

    Hi my 8 week old kittens are now on antibiotics as their glands are “up” and 2 of them have conjunctivitis. How long should I wait before giving them their first vacs?

  55. Lexie says:

    Why are vaccine booster important to my animals health?

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  57. Heather says:

    Hi there!
    I just sold a lady a puppy. The puppy has had his first two shots and I sent the 3rd with her to give him when it was due. She should have given the shot to him on the 14th, but instead gave it to him on the 4th. I know that the parvo shots are supposed to be administered to the date or they do not work properly. I am at a loss as to what we need to do to be sure he is protected and not over-immunized. Will he be ok with the shots given, or do we need to give him another on the date he is due… or later?? Thank you so much!

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  59. Roe says:

    Do I vaccinate my kitten when he is one year old when he has one kidney with stage 2 ckd. If so which vaccinations do you recommend I do?

  60. Yvonne says:

    I have a 9 year old shiba Inu mix aprox 55lbs. This past winter she started sneezing and nose draining. Tried steroids, antibiotics, Flonase, etc. sneezing has stopped however she is leaking like sieve from the one nostril. Her nose is so sore and chapped, now put salve on that. Don’t know what else to do. Environmentally, nothing has changed. Thinking of having a cat scan done. Does anyone have any thoughts ??? She is such a sweet dog!

  61. Erika Smokey says:

    I was given a vaccine for my six week old kitten from the local pet& feed store it was (solo-JEC3) ….I have been looking up info on this and it is telling me she needed to be 8 weeks old min… I am worried she is not acting right I don’t know it this is what the side effects do or not I’m freaking out please help

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  64. Kate says:

    I recently adopted a cat that is approximately 4 years old and the people who gave him to me have never taken him to a vet before. I have an appointment for him at the local vet to get him started vaccinations, microchiped and neutered as well. Is there any major differences to starting with an older animal than a kitten? Like vaccines he should not receive or a waiting period after before I have him fixed. He is also spraying, all of the animals I have had in the past I have gotten fixed before they ever did so I am not sure if he will stop.

  65. Angie says:

    My boyfriend and his dog (american bulldog age 7) moved in with my 4 children and I about 3 yrs ago. The dog has always been a very loving and well behaved dog. As a puppy to this very day he had a bad skin problem where his skin gets very dry but in the last yr he his back hips have been very bad. He has hip displacia and arthritis in his hips. Ontop of this about 6 months ago he started a unsitely growth under his chin the first vet said it was just a groth nothing to worry about then after it doubled in size rapidly we got a second opinion and that vet said the same thing. Since then it has grown to the size of 2 baseballs and we went for A 3rd opinion which point we were told it was a tumor which could be cancerous we have just saved up the money to remove it and notice 5 more smaller growths on his stomach. I had made an appt for the vet which is this monday. What I noticed is the last ast wk that ive bedn waiting to get him into the vet his temperament has changed. He used to be great with otherdogs and the neighbors dog (big dog also) has always played with my dog just the other day the neighbor brought the dog past and walked into our yard like normal and our dogwent after the neighbors dog with some barksa snarls once we pulled them away from eachother and assesed the situation both dogs were fine no bites or scrapes of any kind but some drool on there fur. After that we have kept our dog away from other dogs. Now today my sister came by with her children and our dog was running around with the kids (playing very nice) I asked the kids to go upstairs and play and laid our dog at my feet (me standing above him) the kids ended up back in the kitchen by us (our dog included) and I looked down and my dog was sitting by my feet I had my hand around hus collar so he stayed by me and my niece gently put her hand by his nose for him to sniff. He sniffed for a second then out of no where jumped up and I yanked back as quick as possible to avoid my neice from getting harmed and he just nicked her shoulder with his tooth and immediately stopped and sat back down. So it wasnt like he viciously attcked her and he knew he was wrong right away and stopped but I believe that once a dog attacks a chikd that dog has no place in a home with children. My question to a vet is could his change in dimenor be from being sick and in pain and if it were from that if for 7 yrs the dog has been a very nice dog if once not in pain and no longer sick can the dog go back to being his old self or will the dog continue to act worse and worse. With everything thats happened I would really appreciate a professional opinion cause as it standright now I do not want the dog in my home anymore for my childrens sake. Thanks for your time.

  66. jen says:

    I’m not sure if you’ve had reason to look into it given where you are, but I’d be curious as to your thoughts on the rattlesnake vaccine. We live in the foothills in a rural area in California w/ lots of rattlesnakes and go hiking frequently – which sometimes means it would take a few hours to get medical care. I understand it’s not the best vaccine, but given the high likelihood of exposure here (saw one just a couple days ago), do the benefits outweigh the risks? Folks here seem to think it’s a good idea before snake season starts, I tend to agree, but also like to not expose the dog to unnecessary/harmful treatment.

  67. Poppy says:

    What do you think of my vet not reporting my dog’s bordatella booster as having caused a vaccine reaction? Within one day he had Hemolytic Anemia that I caught by seeing blood in his urine. I know he dud nit have it prior due to extremely regular blood tests (idiopathic liver enzyme checks.) I dropped him off five months later with express written instructions about not administeing vaccines and within an hour he had given him the rabies, another bordatella before it was due, parvo AND lepto. Same day. My With three dats my digs eyes were bleeding, he couldnt walk, had a fever of 105, encephalitis, was in excruciating pain, dizzy and nauseated. When I got back there (out of town) He was laying in the floor, covered in vomit (all over his body) with all the symptoms I described in total agony with only an IV saline drip. He was not on steroids. He was degensive about having done the vaccines, withheld the records, etc. I had to put my dog to sleep. He developed Crush/Rhabdomyolsis after trying to get well. He really never had a chance.

  68. Poppy says:

    Sorry about the typos. Within three days after the admin of those vaccines, this happened, and he had a massive, full neck purpura.
    That was meant to say he was defensive.

  69. Ebony Webster says:

    Hi I am just wondering, I got my cat recently, she is five and only had her initial shots when she was a kitten. She is an indoor outdoor cat and is very healthy with a beautiful shiny coat. Approx how much. Would I be up for to update her immunizations and around how many needles will she get

  70. Jaynie says:

    Took my 2 beagles to a new vet & had all records transferred that clearly showed 1 dog not due for 3 yr. rabies vaccine until August 2016 & the other dog Jan. 2017. Today, August 15, 2014…went in for boosters & vet tech went ahead & gave both dogs the 3 yr. rabies vaccine & I was upset since one had just gotten it in January 2014. Vet said it would not harm her…but what else could vet say…it had already been administered. Do I need to worry about both my dogs?

  71. Jaynie says:

    I goofed on my earlier question still awaiting reply about–dog was given 3 yr. rabies vaccine at old vet on 3/1/2014 and for some reason-new vet gave her another 3 yr. rabies vaccine on 8/15/2014 after transferred records clearly showed when she got it last. She seems to be ok-but I am still concerned about it harming her. Someone told me that some vet administer rabies every year regardless…but this was only 5 1/2 mos. apart.

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  73. Susan says:

    My cats have gone over there routine yearly jabs by one month and the vet says they will have to have two lots of vacines to bring them back to full immunity, is this true or are they trying to make a few extra bucks at my expense?

  74. Nihal says:

    Hi, I never vaccinated my cat for any deseases other than Rabies. Now I have to travel to UAE, can I give him all these vaccines in one vet visit
    > Feline Pan Leukcopenia (FPV), Feline
    > Rhinotrachitics (FHV – Feline
    > Calicivirus
    Thanks

  75. Bonnie Fox says:

    I would like to make two points:

    1. I am completely open to the idea that perhaps the current vaccination regime is more than enough. I don’t have an animal currently, but when I get my next dog I want to discuss this with my vet. BUT I am alarmed to read this long thread and find no mention of the other extreme. Anti-vaxxers are bringing back diseases in dogs — as well as children. Sadly, even distemper (with at least a 95%, some vets say 100% fatality rate) is making a comeback. That you can go too far in rejecting vaccines needs to be stated clearly, no?

    2. That said, I did have an odd experience with my last cat. I took her in for a rabies update. She was an indoor-outdoor cat and tangled occasionally with wildlife so that she have SOME rabies protection was called for. I don’t know how long it had been since her last. I also don’t remember if she had other shots at the same time. I would have to revisit her records to have accurate details. Within 24 hours of getting her home, she began acting oddly. She hid under the couch, not a normal behavior for her. When I tried to get her out, she ran from me, again, not usual. I just glimpsed her fleetingly, but I had the impression she was limping — or rather dragging one side of her body as if half-paralyzed.

    She then disappeared. I thought she had gone to the basement, but as the back door is open just a crack in the summer, it was not impossible she was outside. I looked for her of course. I searched the house, the yard, and the neighborhood. I called and called. I was worried sick. I put out food, water and bedding in the basement and outside. I checked them. As far as I could tell nothing was eaten. I looked for her periodically.

    I did call my vet to ask if this could be some weird reaction, but he said he had never heard of such a thing.

    Really, I had given up hope. She had been gone for over a week. I thought she was gone and possibly dead. She was very old. It is hard to know with cats. Sometimes they go off to die. Then she tottered out of our basement, very wobbly. I don’t know if she had found a corner and had been in a coma-like state. I just will never know. She did return to normal very gradually.

    I did decide she would never have another rabies vaccine. She was very old. Don’t they last about seven years?

    Not too long after, she died of cancer. It just deepened the mystery, in my opinion. Perhaps she had a stroke? Or perhaps she experienced things I had no clue about as her cancer was not diagnosed at that time?

    Or perhaps it was the vaccine. I would like to know for future reference, but at this distance in time, I doubt I ever will.

  76. Mark Bergman says:

    I completely agree with you on vaccinations. I pay for titers (unsure of the spelling) annually just to be on the safe side and have never gotten a low result that required vaccination. My last two Tibetan Spaniels lived to 15 and 18 respectively and their deaths were not related to anything a vaccine would have prevented.

  77. Eva Thurman says:

    “Anecdotally, the leptospirosis vaccine is known to cause the most frequent and violent reactions.” – See more at: http://www.angryvet.com/vaccinations/#sthash.HedmDv7x.dpuf

    What are the frequent and violent reactions you are referencing here?
    I recently had a rescued 8 year old mixed breed dog inoculated with the leptospirosis vaccine because deer cross and rest in my yard, raccoons, rabbits, groundhogs, moles and an occasional coyote stroll frequently through my yard. I don’t know if the vaccine has caused him to suffer with pain exhibited by limping. The site of the inoculation was the thigh of his rear left leg, but the front left leg is affected, painful (not to touch, but when walking [limping & lifting of front left leg] and spontaneous pain resulting in jumping up from a lying position and yelping). Could this pain be associated with the leptospirosis vaccine?

  78. My 4 year old pug had a really, really bad reaction to it’s vaccinations when she was 2. The vet allowed us to skip this last year for medical reasons but I am so afraid of giving her anything from here on out. She swelled up and got hives the size of a half dollar. The vet gave her the higher level of an antihistamine and waited until she started to get better. He said he would be happy to pre-treat her before next year’s shots but can we ask for a Titer instead to see if she actually still needs the shots and what to do if her titers are low. I don’t want to lose my dog because of shots! Thank you.

  79. Dana says:

    What do you suggest if we are forced by the law to vaccinate? If I don’t ,they take him away from me and shoot him up at the pound and I can’t even try to get a monovalent vaccine or give Thuja to him. Those are the only things I can think of to help. I’m terrified. He has immune issues and over reacts to everything. He has been sick most of his life. He almost died from a bee sting. But CA will not exempt hardly any dogs. His Titer was .6 for rabies. I’m consumed with trying to figure out what to do here. The city continues to send me threatening letters and in my small town I wouldn’t be surprised if they came to visit me one day.
    Thanks for posting this. People need to know.

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  81. Gary Paone says:

    Love this site, I would like opinions on Heartworm preventative. Our local call in radio show vet says she doesn’t bother with them. I live in Minnesota.

  82. It's all marketing and money says:

    Do research into vaccines.
    Vaccines, both in humans and pets, are countlessly linked to severe issues.
    All of my animals have had adverse effects to vaccines.
    2 of my 3 dogs developed seizures due to vaccines. And most recently my kitten has IBS linked directly to vaccines.
    And as to the rabies vaccine causing aggression, that’s a well documented phenomenon.
    It’s all about the money. It’s an industry. And I understand that this sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I am educated and have read a lot about the health industry and in most cases, such as prescriptions and vaccines, it does not have our best interest at heart (things such as emergency treatment and diagnostics are different).
    If they stop vaccinating, that’s millions of dollars that will stop adding to the annual profits. It sounds cruel, but that’s not to say that everyone is in on the “scheme.” I genuinely believe that 90% of the people that are in the health field (both human and pet) are just taught the wrong information. They really do believe that all of the vaccines and the prescriptions are necessary, they just don’t know any better, because the 10% that does know teaches them this, and the 90% just want to do us good.
    I don’t vaccinate myself or my animals anymore and we’re as healthy as can be.
    I truly believe that everyone should do their own research, even on what I’ve just said, so please go and look at actual studies and real life cases and scenarios and base your opinion on that.

  83. victoria says:

    I have a 3_4 pound dog,when I tried to give her her vaccine She starded to tripp out badly So i was trying to help I put the vaccine in her food instead
    Will that hurt her

  84. Michele says:

    We got two kittens when they were 5 1/2 months old and they were outside for their entire life. we took to vet, had spayed and first round of shots. Are boosters necessary? Vet said to follow up in one month for booster, then an additional round of shot one month after that. They will be indoor/outdoor cats. Thank you!

  85. Adam hughes says:

    I have a puppy I just got about three times a day she starts shacking then falls over she tries to get up but can’t it only last about 30 seconds can any one help I have check for ticks no ticks or fleas

  86. Jim says:

    Doctor, what is your opinion on the monthly flee/tick preventative chemicals such as frontline, advandtix, etc? and heartwarm preventative chews such as heartguard?
    I am starting to come to the belief that these may be bad for our dogs health and the best prevention for ticks/flees is checking you dog daily and a twice a year snap test at the vets office for lyme and heartwarm disease. My thinking is jan and then july would be the best time of year for the snap test.
    What are your thoughts on this ?

    thanks

  87. Tim Nass says:

    My wife brought our 12 week old Goldendoodle to have its shots for destemper and lymes. He went into shock and had a severe reaction to the shots. The vet tried steroids and the also started him on a I V to inject a drug to help clear his Lungs. They try several times to get his lungs to clear up but it didn’t work. We had to make the decision to put him down. My wife ,son, daughter and myself said our goodbyes. . We bring our puppy in for routine shots and go home without him. What else could we have done. My wife and me just can get a grip on this. If we get another dog, what is safe for them? Rest in Peace Eddie . We Love You

  88. Shirley Mayhew says:

    My 6 year old Border Terrier has recently died from GME just three weeks after his last booster vaccinations which included the new two part Leptosporosis vaccination. He did not live long enough to have the second half of this. I thought I was being a responsible dog owner, doing the right thing by having my dog vaccinated annually. If I had been aware of the risks I would have reconsidered. By not having these annual boosters we are then unable to use boarding kennels and are also not covered under our insurance policies. I know in my heart that his death was a direct result of the boosters but have no direct proof. I can’t begin to describe the anger and guilt that I feel which is only overshadowed by the depth of my sadness. How can we prevent the destruction of healthy animals from routine over vaccination?

    • Hi first of all I am so sorry about your loss, I feel your pain. I lost my 6yr old staffordshire terrior Roxie on 10/27/14. 72 hrs after recieving 2nd dose of leptosporosis vaccine. At first she just vomited once and 1/2 hr and seemed ok. 1hr later she didnt want to go out for late night walk and was alittle lethagic and depressed I then suspected something was not right but I figured it might just be a bug. bout 20 min later she collasped And was breathing labored and I put her in car for 45 min ride to med vet in Cincy ohio. She died on front seat after trying to revive her. My vey suggusted the vaccine if I taook her in woods alot which I did and personally I think they do it to pad the bill which was $300 for exam and vaccines. I also thought I was doing (the right thing). I now know they make 25% of income on shots alone and business is business but I sure wish they would have been more revealing about the possible side effects,the risks vs benefits with hardly any diagnosed cases in ohio. I know people make mistakes I did but vet was like vaccine reaction would have only been likely 1to 3 hrs and she died of something else.I had a dog that passed in July that was on chemo for thyroid cancer for almost 2 yrs and she never got that sick ever. I just wish they could give you the facts before giving shot and handing the bill. they need to be more accountable I even tried to report it to FDA but I got no cooperation. Again I am sorry for your loss lets get the word Out ! take care Don in Cincy

  89. Brandi says:

    Hi, I recently took in 4 little puppies to foster for 5 days. I took them straight to the vet to get first set of shots. They seemed well while I had them. Were very active and had a good appetite. They were sent to another state and 2 days after arriving one died over night, one is in critical condition and the other 2 is sick but stable with Parvo. My question is this, I have 4 dogs of my own. All have had puppy shots and are now considered adult dogs. But 2 of my dogs haven’t had their yearly shots this year. Are they at risk for catching parvo? Or even if vaccinated are they at risk? I really need yo know so any information would be appreciated. Thanks.

  90. Mary Saldavar says:

    My dog was 30lbs and five months old and received distemper, (CVA), Parainfluenza, Parvo, Leptospirosis, and Rabies vaccinations along with, dewormer and heart worm prevention all in one visit to the vet. My Dog died of kidney failure nine days after the visit. The vet said anti-freeze was the most probable cause, but that is not possible. She was only acting lethargic (which I was told is natural right after vaccinations) until she became far too ill to be treated. Could the vaccinations be directly related?

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  92. Ziggy says:

    Re. the dog mauling the kid.
    Look, I run an animal rescue dealing specifically with aggressive or ‘problem’ individuals; but I rescue rats. Even a completely messed up one is unlikely to be able to kill me.
    With a dog that has actually mauled a child, rehoming this dog on to another family is not only irresponsible, it may be impossible. Many rescue services will not take on dogs with a bite history, even a ‘minor’ one; good luck finding one willing to take on a dog that has mauled a child.
    And if you do find one, chances are people won’t be queuing up around the block to adopt it; you could be condemning the dog to a life in kennels, year after year, over looked and becoming more and more frustrated and unpredictable.
    People think ‘rehoming’ is the ‘humane’ option for these dogs, but often, a painless dignified death is better than the next 5 or 10 years stuck in a kennel block.

    Now, there ARE people who like to deal with dogs like this, but they are few and far between. Even finding a shelter that will take a healthy dog with no bite history can be hard, and many wonderful, even tempered dogs remain in kennels for ages because no-one wants them. Not only is the dog who mauled the child going to take up a kennel for a dog that CAN be easily rehomed, it is condemning that dog to a life of fear, isolation, mis-management and stress.

    Of course without being there to see the attack, there will be a lot of questions: what was the kid doing? Did the dog give warning after warning before the ‘attack’ a dogs often do but are ignored? Was the dog in severe pain somewhere? How was the dogs behaviour prior to this? Any hints of aggression or unease around the child that may have gone unnnoticed, as they often are?

    Im not saying we can make that call from one simple online post. But the fact remains that rehoming a dog with a history of mauling, or attempting to maul, a child is not in anyone’s best interests. What if that dog goes to a new home, and mauls someone else? How would you live with yourself to know you could have prevented that, but chose not to?

    If someone is lucky enough to find one of those very special people willing to take on ‘problem’ dogs and work with them, and who is willing and able to safely manage the dog for life, and not have it condemned to a kennel or isolated space for life with minimal contact, then cool, give it a go.
    But those people are almost impossible to find.

    In many cases, its better for the dog’s quality of life, and the welfare of the people who will be expected to be around it, to have it humanely put to sleep.
    And you won’t find anyone more willing to do everything they can to help an animal than me, but I am also realistic and know that spaces for these kinds of dogs aren’t just around the corner, and the risks associated with re-homing a dog like that to someone else are significant.
    Seems sometimes, people just want to appease their own conscience and feel like they’ve ‘done the right thing’ by not euthanising the dog, while handing the problem and the risk over to someone else. Helps them sleep better at night than if they’d PTS. But honestly, I don’t think most of these people are thinking about anything but their own feelings, certainly not those of the dog or the people who will have to be responsible for it for the rest of its life.

  93. zacpan says:

    Hi
    I tried to do the vaccination for rabies to my dog-a german shepard- yesterday(nobivac rabies) but before I complete it he moved and 1/3 of the injection went out. Is he safe with 2/3 of the injection or I have to do the vaccination again?

  94. Tasha says:

    Good day

    The dog I have hasn’t had his 1 year booster shot. Can I still get this done, it’s about a year and a half late.

    Thanks

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  96. jen says:

    Hi, I brought my 5 year old Siberian Husky last month to the vet for a well checkup. She was fine and received the lepto and lyme vaccines. I brought her back 3 weeks later for the second in the series. Since then she has not been able to hold her feces through the night. She seems to have to go to the bathroom instantly but it is not runny. She also has thrown up a few times after eating. She is acting a little weird but is eating. She also has lost 8 pounds in the month which worries me! Its hard to see her loss due to all of her fur and hair but she is feeling bony! What could it be and what can I do? :(

  97. kenzie says:

    what happens if your dog is allergic to all of her shots what do you do then?

  98. Iñaki says:

    Hi there. I really appreciate this website and the information you guys put here.
    Due to my new puppy bitch and a little ulcer my cat had in her eye I realised the amount of pressure we owners have got with some vets.
    My vet insist on vaccinating my puppy once she reach the age of 12 month every year and so my cat. I prompted about all I learned here as I coming from a health background working with research and guidelines, but they seem not interested whatsoever abut 3 yearly or more vaccinations etc. As I will show my bitch dogs shows do you think I should vaccinate her against any other potential disease??
    Any idea or reference or where I can find vets like you guys here over UK.
    Thanks

  99. SkeptVet says:

    I generally agree with your Bottom Line, but unfortunately many of the purported dangers you associated with vaccination are unproven or extremely rare. We have to be careful about instilling irrational fear because in the future no amount of fact is likely to ever remove it. Wakefield’s claims about autism and MMR have been thoroughly disproven, his paper retracted, and his medical license taken away, yet we still can’t convince parents the MMR vaccine is safe and will not cause autism. There are, of course, real dangers to vaccines, but there are also real dangers to excessive fear of vaccines, which in humans is beginning to lead to the resurgence of diseases farm more harmful than the vaccines used to prevent them.

    In particular, the concern about vaccines and autoimmune diseases, such as ITP and IMHA, has proven very difficult to substantiate, even in human studies with tens of thousands of vaccines given. It is very unlikely that this is a sufficient risk for most vaccinated pets, and it is clear in humans that the diseases we are vaccinating against often cause autoimmune disease at a far higher rate than vaccines.

    Some references to consider:
    1. Carr AP, et al. Prognostic factors for mortality and thromboembolism in canine immune-mediated hemolytic anemia: A retrospective study of 72 dogs. J Vet Internal Med.2002;16:504-509.
    10% of cases vaccinated within 1 month
    No difference between cases and controls in time from vaccination to presentation

    2. Davidow EB, et al. Risk factors for development of IMHA-A prospective case-control study. Abstract. VECCS 2004.
    Proportion of dogs vaccinated within 2 months of onset not different between cases and controls
    Cases- 16.1%
    Controls- 44.4%

    3. Huang AA, et al. Idiopathic immune-mediated thrombocytopenia and recent vaccinations in dogs. JVIM 2012; 26: 142-148.
    Proportion of dogs vaccinated within 42 days of onset not different between cases and controls-
    Cases- 8%%
    Controls- 14%

    4. Naleway AL. et al. Risk of immune hemolytic anemia in children following immunization. Vaccine. 2009 Dec 9;27(52):7394-7.
    Database of 4.2 million children
    55 cases of IMHA reported 1991-2001
    No association with vaccination

    5. Cecinati V. Hum Vaccin Immunother. Vaccine administration and the development of immune thrombocytopenic purpura in children. 2013 May;9(5):1158-62.
    ITP only associated with MMR
    1-3 children per 100,000 doses
    This is lower than the rate of ITP caused by the diseases MMR prevents! (1:3000 to 1:6000 cases)

  100. Chris says:

    Hey what can you do when the vet gives shot even though you ask them not to?
    I had to get my cat fixed and said DON’T GIVE HIM THE SHOTS.
    They I get the cat back and they are telling me all the wonderful things they did including the shots I said not to give.

    Then she says, “whadda ya want to sue me?” Like its a big joke

    Thanks Chilliwack cat lady

  101. Anna Dean says:

    Sometimes I wonder, if Vets are still our pets best friend? They are too profit driven now!

  102. Brooke says:

    I just want answers. We just recently rescued our first dog ourselves, it didn’t turn out so well. As soon as we got him I took him the next day to the vet to get his shots and have a check up. They gave him his rabies shot that Friday (5 days before the bite) and on the day of the bite he had been groomed and given the kennel cough vaccine and the parvo vaccine. We had just gotten home from the vet not even ten minutes, I was right there watching Briar (my 5 year old) give the dog a new toy we had gotten, they were playing tug of war (nothing new) with it and the dog just snapped him. Briar had 3 stitches on his lip tonight. He stopped as soon as he realized what he had done didn’t offer to bite me or anything its like he just lost it for a second. The dog had never given the slightest inclination of aggressiveness in the 5 days we had him. In fact he never barked or growled not once in the those 5 days, the most he ever did was whine a bit when he was placed in his crate which was not very often. I have found him a good home with a bachelor that has no children and he will I hope have a peaceful life. But I followed everything the vet told me do. Exact food, rest, training, etc. He was our first dog and will most likely be our last. I feel like a failure to my son and smokey (the dog). I was always right there when he played with him and watched carefully, thank goodness I did. If it helps any the vet said he was about 1 to 2 years old and he also tested positive for heart worms and had begun treatment on Friday as well, it was the pills only no injection.

  103. Sarah says:

    I have 4, 5 week old puppies, and their 2 1/2 year old mother who has only had a 5 way shot when she was 1 year old, and is current on rabies. What shots should i give them, and her, and when? Also when is it safe to get her and them fixed?

  104. Patricia says:

    My VCA vet insists on an exam every time my do get a vaccination states that he cannot just give the vaccine. Is this necessary? The visit usually cost about $300 when I get the heartworm meds.

    • Terri says:

      When practicing the best medicine, a full physical exam is needed for any pet despite what they are presented for.

  105. Nadine Tiongson says:

    I’ve had my dog for almost 3 months now. He seems to be having a lot of problems but he grew out of them. I’ve been taking him to the Delta Animal Clinic in Pittsburg, CA. The vet said I need to get him vaccinated for DAPP every 3 weeks until he is 16 weeks old, and each time we take him to the vet, he gets dewormed every time. The worms never seem to go away although the vet says it should be gone. I wonder if it’s the dewormer he’s using which is the Nemex brand. How many times does a Blue Nose Pitbull need to be vaccinated for DAPP? The previous dog I had, she only needed to get 2 sets and a rabies shot. So I’m confused. I feel like I’m spending money at this vet for something my dog doesn’t need.

    • C M says:

      We had the same issue with the last litter of puppies we had. We used Nemex…it didn’t work….we used RFD….it didn’t work…we ended up getting a liquid Strongid from the vet…That worked and is what we continue to use now.

  106. Amanda Wilson says:

    Hi there. retired vet tech here. I only have my dog vaccinated for distemper, parvo, ect, about every 3-4 years. I was just declined the ability to adopt another dog because of this… Any suggestions on how to persuade them to see it from my point of view?

    • Ausvet says:

      I’m an Australian Vet with loads of experience in Australia and SE Asia and South Asia. I hope people are listening to AngryVet…he is speaking a LOT of sense. His comments on vaccines are accurate, though I have no experience with Lyme Disease. Dogs that bite or ‘maul’ kids have no place in our society; period.
      Regarding vaccines; in Western society most pets are absurdly overvaccinated. Vaccine reactions are uncommon, but possible. Here in Australia we dont see feline sarcomas as a result of vaccination, but certainly other maladies such as IMHA do occur, though uncommonly. People need to understand that the best vets are pragmatic and sensible and yes, they care about animals, but they also care about human society and the interaction of those animals within.

  107. liz says:

    Angry Vet – Your comment “No role. Get rid of the dog. Period” is absurd. People need to know the truth about the rabies vaccines and vaccinations altogether. The rabies vaccine is the culprit not the dog. The dog reacted to a foreign object injected into the body and people need to focus on the real issue here. http://www.dogs4dogs.com/truth4dogs

  108. Jane says:

    Could you please address the dangers of vaccinating a puppy who is injured at the time of vaccinating? I believe that this is a dangerous circumstance wherein the puppy is all ready stressed and is not able to correctly mount an immune defense due to its injury. Done at the convenience of a veterinarian who, “while the dog is here and this will save you a trip”, takes advantage of a flustered owner and causes more problems in the long run.

  109. Sandy Smith says:

    Is it harmful for my 8 yr old cat to have a 2nd Rabies shot because one of the clerical staff put a note in Cooper’s file that I said I had him get his rabies shot somewhere else.

    I took him to Banfield Vet to have his teeth done on 4/13/15 & the print out they gave me today shows he als0 had a rabies shot on 4/13/2015 . However, they are now saying that in their notes in Cooper’s file that I told the staff I took him elsewhere for his Rabies shot. That is absolutely ridiculous – I dropped him off on 4/13/15 at 8:00 A.M. & picked him up at 4:30 P.M. on 4/13/15 and he was still dopey from being put under. It’s crazy to say I went elsewhere on 4/13/15 to get the shot. First of all, I don’t have another vet to take him to and second, no vet offices are open that early in the morning to take him to before going to Banfield.
    The Las Vegas Animal Licensing sent me a letter on 7/6/15 saying they processed my $10.00 payment for Jake (my other cat) but since I don’t have a current rabies vaccination date & expiration date they cannot issue a license for Cooper.
    How can Banfield put in Cooper’s file notes that – Rabies shot given on 4/13/15 and Due date is 4/12/17?
    I need to know if a second Rabies shot will harm Cooper because that is probably what Banfield will say to do since their records are not accurate.

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  121. Hi,my vet said my puppy must have the kennel cough vaccines and a poisonous flea treatment to get neutered? He has no cough or fleas! The vet had a spaz when I said NO! He has to be fixed but what is the law? I can’t believe what a hassle this is! God forbid we do the Right Healthy Thing For Our Dog’s. Aaaaaah!
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  129. Mark says:

    :leptospirosis; bacterial vaccinations do not provide long term immunity. WRONG
    This is just bullshit and shows a lack of understanding. It is nothing to do with wether or not it a bacteria.
    Is everything on this site made up?
    See abortion vaccine in sheep- chlamydophila abortus- Mydiavac with a claim for at least 771 days post vaccination from a single dose

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  131. Kathy swartzenberg says:

    My healthy German sherpard 9 us 4 mo had a lepto shot. The next day she can not walk with out help she does improve during the day but the next morning the same thing . She is alert just can control her legs. Could this be from the shot. My vet doesn’t know what to say.

  132. Deborah says:

    HI,
    I came across your blog while I was doing research on the DA2cpp vaccine.
    My german shepherd is 5 years old. She had her puppy shots and a booster at 2 years old.
    It looks like what I have been reading she doesnt need anymore boosters.
    Or should I have a titre done?
    She is a healthy raw fed dog.
    Would you be kind enough to confirm this with me?

    Also, i was interested in knowing what you believe to be the best heartworm preventative protocol.
    Thank you.

  133. Julio says:

    I have a 4 year old pitbull and has never had it’s shots, well I don’t thi,k he has ,i found him when he was about 10 weeks , is it safe to vaccinate him this late and if yes will there be problems if he had been vaccinated before I got him

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  135. Stacy Haines says:

    I am reading your thoughts on vaccinations. This seems to be an old blog. Are these still your thoughts as of today? I have always been scared of vaccinations after hearing adverse affects. We had a Miniature Schnauzer years ago that had a severe swelling/allergic reaction to the DHLPP around the age of 5..never boostered her again & she was fine. We have 3 small dogs now 7 every time the vet says their shots are due I cringe. Our ShihTzu mix is due for Lepto & Bordatella now..I do not want the Lepto & torn about the bordatella . She does go to the groomer every 7 weeks. Your thoughts?

  136. Anton says:

    Hi Doctor Angry Vet, I will try and keep this as short as possible as I see you have a flood of responses, understandably of course. It’s a very important contentious and critical issue for the welfare of our dogs.

    I don’t live in the USA, Europe, UK or Ireland, Australia etc but in Asia, Hong Kong. My vet will only do annual vaccinations and its a Six in One. Very recently he has decided only rabies should be every three years. Simply changing vets is a very limited option as only very few do house calls. Most in any case seem to hold his views here. However that wouldn’t stop me getting the right thing done for my dogs.

    His reasoning for insisting on annually is that we have a lot of stray and wild dogs in Hong Kong. As such our dog are according to him much more vulnerable than the rest of the world where vaccination protocol has for the most part long, long changed. He also states this opinion on his web site should you wish to read it. He is an Australian vet.

    My question is isn’t immune immune?

    No matter what’s in the environment, once a dog has been vaccinated correctly with the core vaccinations from puppy into adulthood aren’t they immune to these diseases no matter what the levels of unvaccinated dogs in the environment might be? At least the same as any other dog in any other part of the globe would be?

    Isn’t triennial vaccination and titre tests more than sufficient? Even too much, even in these circumstances?

    Your opinion would be very well received, I have read your site many times over.

    Regards

    • Missiejoe says:

      Do not know if this helps. There are studies out there that show the immune level in dogs and how many years out it provides protection. From my understanding titers are not as helpful as we think in necessarily providing you an answer if your pet is still able to protect itself from the disease. Most people do not opt to do titers because in the end they tend to be more expensive than just doing the vaccine. I have been reading about all this stuff for days and days as I am currently in the midst of writing my term paper on the use of vaccines. Very interesting stuff and even more interesting is the scientific data provided. I am starting to wonder about every thing I have ever been taught about vet medicine. It is hard to argue with scientific data. Especially when that data comes from people who have no risk of gain or loss in the topic being researched.

  137. Missiejoe says:

    I’m sorry if this question seems silly. But where could I find the published data you speak of in your article. I am student writing my paper on the use of vaccines and find your article very well stated. I would just like to use some of the info in my paper and am having a heck of a time pinning down specifics. There is so much information out there and so much of it seems so one sided. Your article was a nicely written and to the point and seemed very unbiased.

  138. Mary Nielsen says:

    Your article is very informative. In my point of view, it is still better to have your dog vaccinated from all the diseases such as coronavirus as you’ve mentioned. Nobody knows when the virus might exist in your community. Prevention is still better than cure. I had a friend who didn’t vaccinated her husky because she was confident her dog won’t get lepto until her dog was infected. From my own experience as well, I didn’t have my dog vaccinated for kennel cough but still he acquired it. I just didn’t want to take risk.

  139. Cindy says:

    I sparingly vaccinated my 3 lb female chihuhua after her initial puppy shots. She often went several years wo vaccines. I did not give her lepto vaccine. She did fine with one year vaccines given once every 3-5 years. This year I had her vaccinated so she could come to the dog park per their regulations.
    It was the new 3 year core vaccine and I specified no lepto. A month latet she has blood in her urine. Blood panel shows her platelets are at TEN! Vet says it’s probably IMT and put her on a two week regime of prednisone.
    Can she recover from this?
    What else can we do?
    Desperate Momma….
    My other 2 dogs will NOT get immunized again! I think the partially killed virus did it to her.
    Any advice?

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